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ZL3AI > APRDIG 28.01.07 23:16l 267 Lines 10754 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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Subj: [APRSSIG] Vol 31 #32, 2/5
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From: ZL3AI@ZL2BAU.#79.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 13:43:17 -0600
From: "Richard N. Piper IV" <richard.piper_at_media4god.org>
Subject: [aprssig] Is A Digi Needed??
Here are the "Some What" close Digi's To my Home Station of KC0RNP
KC9FIQ-9 36.1 Miles
N9AZZ-2 77.9 Miles
KC9FIQ-7 31.9 Miles
KC9FIQ-8 44.6 Miles
KB0ZAW-2 61.2 Miles
K4MSU-3 115.7
All the Digi's listed are set up for W3. Is my KC0RNP Digi needed?
Should I even have it running. Thoughts and comments?
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Message: 9
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 11:52:57 -0800
From: "VE7GDH" <ve7gdh_at_rac.ca>
Subject: RE: [aprssig] DIGIpeater - Network performance
William (callsign?) wrote...
(re 240 stations in Bob's ALOHA circle)
>How can you have over 60 to 100 stations in your Aloha circle?
You noticed that too, eh? hi Maybe Bob (and some of the other 240 stations)
need to shorten their path a bit. In Bob's defence, Bob has already
mentioned that some of the 240 stations only show up at his QTH a few times
a day. I'm probably in a similar situation. I'm looking at UI-View with a
TCPIP-only connection right now, but for the last few weeks I was running it
with either a KPC-3+ or a TNC-X as a digipeater (as well as the IGate that
has been running for several years), and I was seeing virtually the same
station list. Most are coming from the two "high density" areas around
here... Vancouver BC & Seattle WA plus all of the surrounding area. However,
there are lots of stations from the interior of BC (and a few in WA state)
that were making it here on RF over very long distances. I think the APRS
users in the very sparsely populated but mountainous areas of BC feel they
need a longer path to make it to one of the few IGates up that way. A
consequence of this is that quite a few of the stations in northern BC and
the Okanagan also make it on RF down to the Vancouver area... a distance of
about 600 km for some of those stations. However, quite a few of the digis
up that way also show up down "here" on RF too. They aren't in my ALOHA
circle, but I see them. Did I mention that I usually use a one hop path for
any digi / IGates (fixed station) that I run here? Perhaps I'm in a fairly
unique location here. I have a fairly large footprint even though I'm not at
a great altitude, but I also have several large footprint digis within
earshot as well.
73 es cul - Keith VE7GDH
--
"I may be lost, but I know exactly where I am!"
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Message: 10
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 15:43:20 -0500
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga_at_usna.edu>
Subject: RE: [aprssig] Is A Digi Needed??
Looks to me like your digi is needed for travelers along I-155, sine there
is no other digi within 34 miles. Easy answer, is whether a mobile driving
in your sparse area along I-55 can be heard without your digipeater. If
the answer is no, then your station is needed, as at least a WIDE1-1 digi.
If same mobile along I-55 in your area does not reliably hear most packets
from the distant digis, then your digi is needed as a full service digi.
Bob, Wb4APR
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 21:54:41 +0100
From: Kai Gunter Brandt <kai.brandt_at_hjemme.no>
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [aprssig] UIview Digiepater add-on
Robert Bruninga wrote:
>the digi. In Europe a lot of the digis are well situated home
>stations that are running Uiview as the local digipeater.
hmm what part of europe?? ;o)
I think DIGI-NED and UI-DIGI is used a lot in Norway. The digis i know all
uses TNC or AGWTracker or similar. This because the montain is not easy to
reach in winter etc.
Home stations or other QTH is probably running i.e ui-view, AGWDigi. But i
really dont think a PC is stable enough to run perfectly 24/7/365 without
som kind of watchdog
But people living in a perfect QTH already using APRS with some client then
UI-View is perfect acting as a digi.
>And as it stands, you cannot TX a local -direct-no-hop- object
>from Uiview unless you change your entire station to no hops for
>anything. So Jan suggested an add-on for Uiview that will send
>these local voice repeater object packets DIRECT only,
So the plugin should use WIDE1-1 or NOHOP as a path? :o)
AGWTracker uses QRT as a method to "drop" packets so that its not been
digied.
LA3QMA
Kai Gunter
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Message: 12
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 13:27:00 -0800
From: "VE7GDH" <ve7gdh_at_rac.ca>
Subject: Re: [SPAM] RE: [aprssig] UIview Digiepater add-on
Kai LA3QMA wrote...
>But I really don't think a PC is stable enough to run perfectly 24/7/365
>without some kind of watchdog
I run UI-View32 as a IGate for weeks and weeks on end. The machine running
the IGate here is used for many other tasks on a daily basis, so even if
there is the occasional glitch, I know about it. However, about the only
time the computer ever needs a restart is after Windows update that
requires it, and I have it download the updates but wait for an OK from me
before installing them. An exception has been recently with ADSL problems
and a number of interruptions to service and the occasional reboot to prove
to the ISP that the problem is theirs. Other than this past week, it just
ticks along with no interruptions at all. I really think that Windows is a
lot more stable than it used to be, but I agree that it would be good if a
person were around to give it a nudge if needed.
>So the plugin should use WIDE1-1 or NOHOP as a path? :o)
>AGWTracker uses QRT as a method to "drop" packets so that its not
>been digied.
I would think it should be more of a no hop path... i.e. direct only. if
the idea is to let local mobile APRS users know about local voice
repeaters, the range of the object shouldn't really be reaching out to
through digipeaters. If the program generating the object is down in a
hole, it probably isn't in the best location to be generating the object.
However, with that said, I'm sure there will be occasions when someone
might want to generate objects, bulletins or announcements at something
other than their default path. I hear what Bob is saying about perhaps it
might be better if it had an unchangeable no-hop path, but perhaps I have
more faith in operators setting things up properly. If they err, we help
them fix it.
73 es cul - Keith VE7GDH
--
"I may be lost, but I know exactly where I am!"
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 16:47:13 -0500
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga_at_usna.edu>
Subject: RE: [SPAM] RE: [aprssig] UIview Digiepater add-on
>I would think it should be more of a no hop path... i.e.
>direct only. if the idea is to let local mobile APRS
>users know about local voice repeaters, the
>range of the object shouldn't really be reaching out to
>through digipeaters.
I'm beginning to realize, based on one of the other posts, that there are
many non-KPC3+ digipeaters on mountains with nearby voice repeaters that
may need to have a local such object. So in this case, then the Uiview
down in the "hole" would need to have a ONE-HOP only path via that mountain
top digi to advertise that colocated voice repeater. In all cases, this
path would be 1 hop specific to that one digi. I don't see any need for a
generic path to hit more than one digi.
The down side, as I pointed out from the beginning, is that originating the
packet down in a hole with a 1 hop path is much less than optimum, because
the object is now just another digipeated packet that contributes to
collisions to other local users at a 1 packet every 10 minute rate. That
is pretty high rate..
Whereas, the original concept is to originate these packets at the
all-hearing-digi so that it will only transmit one of these local-no-hop
packets when the channel is clear. Thus, zero impact to local loading and
no impact on local traffic.
Good inputs, Keith,
Thanks
Bob, Wb4APR
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Message: 14
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 17:19:42 -0500
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga_at_usna.edu>
Subject: [aprssig] Worldwide New-N APRS Digipeater statistics Update!
Here is New-N Paradigm progress since October 2005.
Notice the big jump in "S" digipeaters. And phase out of "L"'s which is the
same as an "S" digipeater but for some reason does not support the SSn-N
path. There aren't as many fill-in WIDE1-1's, as I thought.
New-N-Paradigm Digis:
S digis 840, was 490 New-N's that support SSn-N
L digis 63, was 75 New-N's (should be S's)
F digis 20, was 20 KPC3 old ver 8.2 FLOOD only
P digis 17, was 20 New-N Paccomms
1 digis 61, was 30 New-N one-hop digis
Old style digis:
N 380, was 515 Old -N's that flood and bad timings
T 100, was 115 obsolete PacComm Trace digis
U 110, was 135 UIDIGI ROMS needing updating to "S"
D 46, was 75 DIGI_NED needing updating to "S"
R 72, was 95 obsolete RELAY. Change to WIDE1-1
W 12, was 12 obsolete WIDE. Change to WIDE1-1
See the New-N Paradigm ideas on which all this is based:
http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/aprs/fix14439.html
The most important thing that should be fixed NOW are the "T" digis that
can all be updated to New-N remotely by the SYSOP without even visiting the
digi site. It is simply a matter of changing the parameters by
remote-sysop linnk. Above all else, those "T" digis should be the focus.
Once the commands are sent, then it becomes a "P" digi.
There are still a huge number of "N" digis, and the fact that they have not
been updated (again, trivial to do via remote logon only) means they are
contributing a lot of unnecessary QRM to the channel that could all be
eliminated if the SYSOP would just logon and set the paramteres according
to the New-N Paradigm.
Fixing those "N" and "T" digis without any hardware changes or any trips to
the site, would go a very long way toward completing the New-N Paradigm
shift. If you have an "N" or "T" digi, gently approach the sysop and see
if you can help him with the set up. Offer to make the changes if he will
give you a temporary SYSOP password. After you make the changes for him,
he can reset to his favorite password and be confident that he has not
compormised his system.
Clues of digis that have not been fully updated are:
1) still show an "N" or a "T"
2) dont show the type of TNC in the TOCALL
3) dont show the "Wn,SSn" capabilities in posit text
4) Are not beaconing with the proportional-Pathing technique
5) Are using more than 2 hops
6) Don't show a PHG value
7) ID text not condensed for best 10x10 display on D7/D700
We are getting close. Just a few more hundred to go out of 1660 or so.
Every locatin that has done it has reported an improvement in performance.
Lets do it.
Bob, Wb4APR
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