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ZL3AI > APRDIG 28.01.07 23:13l 255 Lines 9930 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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Subj: [APRSSIG] Vol 31 #32, 1/5
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To : APRDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. RE: DIGIpeater - Network performance (Robert Bruninga)
2. UIview Digiepater add-on (Robert Bruninga)
3. Re: RE: Stuck KPC3+ serial port? (VE7GDH)
4. RE: DIGIpeater - Network performance (William McKeehan)
5. RE: DIGIpeater - Network performance (Robert Bruninga)
6. Re: UIview Digiepater add-on (Robbie, wa9inf)
7. RE: UIview Digiepater add-on (Robert Bruninga)
8. Is A Digi Needed?? (Richard N. Piper IV)
9. RE: DIGIpeater - Network performance (VE7GDH)
10. RE: Is A Digi Needed?? (Robert Bruninga)
11. Re: [SPAM] RE: [aprssig] UIview Digiepater add-on (Kai Gunter Brandt)
12. Re: [SPAM] RE: [aprssig] UIview Digiepater add-on (VE7GDH)
13. RE: [SPAM] RE: [aprssig] UIview Digiepater add-on (Robert Bruninga)
14. Worldwide New-N APRS Digipeater statistics Update! (Robert Bruninga)
15. Re: [SPAM] RE: [aprssig] UIview Digiepater add-on (Kai Gunter Brandt)
16. Fwd: wx200d (Ryan Tourge)
17. RE: Local Repeater Displays on Mobiles (Keith - VE7GDH)
18. RE: Local Repeater Displays on Mobiles (Keith - VE7GDH)
19. Re: [SPAM] RE: [aprssig] UIview Digiepater add-on (Joel Maslak)
20. Re: [SPAM] RE: [aprssig] UIview Digiepater add-on (Steve Huston)
21. Re: [SPAM] RE: [aprssig] UIview Digiepater add-on (VE7GDH)
22. Feeding impedance QUAD antenna (Andrew Rich)
23. Re: Feeding impedance QUAD antenna (Ray Wells)
24. Re: RE: [aprssig] UIview Digiepater add-on (Kai Gunter Brandt)
25. Re: [SPAM] RE: [aprssig] UIview Digiepater add-on (Jan T. Pharo)
26. Opentracker Manual Ammendment (Andrew Rich)
27. Re: Feeding impedance QUAD antenna (VE7GDH)
28. RE: Feeding impedance QUAD antenna (Andrew Rich)
29. RE: Feeding impedance QUAD antenna (VE7GDH)
30. Re: Feeding impedance QUAD antenna (Jan T. Pharo)
31. Re: [SPAM] RE: [aprssig] UIview Digiepater add-on (John Galvin)
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Message: 1
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 13:02:01 -0500
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga_at_usna.edu>
Subject: RE: [aprssig] DIGIpeater - Network performance
I should have also provided this link:
http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/aprs/mdmapw66.gif
That map showed all the digipeaters we used to hear on RF prior to the 2004
New-N Paradigm. We were seeing digis and users over 9 states, all on RF.
Now what I hear on RF is much improved and covers a much smaller area that
is appropriate for the 240 users we see every day. QRM is down,
reliability is up.
Compare the above map with the map below and you can clearly see the
difference that the New-N paradigm makes over the 2 years. And it also
appears that we are 90% there. Bob, WB4APR
>-----Original Message-----
>From: aprssig-bounces_at_lists.tapr.org
>Subject: [aprssig] DIGIpeater - Network performance
>
>No one jumped on this sentence buried in some of the earlier
>emails...
>
>>1) I live in probably the highest density of APRS and voice
>>repeaters on the planet, over 100 voice repeaters and I just
>>checked 50 digipeaters heard on RF....
>
>I was frying other fish at the time, but when I noticed this 50
>digipeaters heard on RF in the Baltimore-Washington DC area, it
>did tweak my interest. Today, I got back to it and took a
>detail look at this.
>
>Turns out, all but 5 of those digis are using the proper 2 hop
>paths and are fully compliant with the New-N paradigm. Only 1
>was so far out of area as to be due to TROPO. The others all
>represent how powerful a 2 hop path is on the Eastern Seaboard.
>Now remember, that a 2 HOP path from a digipeater is similar to
>a 3 hop path from a user station, since the digi is already at a
>high site, so we will see digipeaters one tier beyond where we
>should be seeing 2 hop users. These two images show the digis
>and how many are outside of my ALOHA circle.
>
>http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/aprs/DC-digis.GIF
>
>But since 2 hop users are one tier less than 2 hop digi's, most
>of the 240 users I hear on RF these days are within my ALOHA
>circle as we hoped:
>
>http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/aprs/DC-users.GIF
>
>Anyway, this is a lot better picture than it used to be, and
>even with all that activity, there is still some quiet time for
>most mobiles to get in.
>
>Those areas that are still stuck with RELAY and WIDE
>digiepeaters can look forward to improvements such as we have
>gained here. See
>http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/aprs/fix14439.html
>
>Bob, WB4APR
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 13:07:36 -0500
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga_at_usna.edu>
Subject: [aprssig] UIview Digiepater add-on
>>Any one know how to code & willing to write this add-on?
>
>I'll send a copy of that part of the communication to the UI-View
>group.
We ought to make sure to emphasize that this addon should only be for
designated "digipeaters" (usually at high sites) and that these objects
must be direct, or we are putting an explosive QRM generating tool in the
hands of the masses who might not fully understand the significance and
impact of improper use.
Thanks
Bob, WB4APR
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 10:10:25 -0800
From: "VE7GDH" <ve7gdh_at_rac.ca>
Subject: Re: [aprssig] RE: Stuck KPC3+ serial port?
Alex (callsign?) wrote...
>Well, I tried the standard hard reset, removing the
>battery, the KISS break command, and checked the
>cables again and this thing still won't talk to me.
Does the TNC have a good power supply... 6-25 VDC? The terminal program
should have been at 1200 N81 for the hard reset. You say you have checked
the cable. Was that with an ohmmeter, or with another TNC, modem etc.? You
need at least ground, transmit data and receive data connected. That really
leaves the serial port or a problem with the TNC itself. Do you have
anything to check the serial port with such as another TNC, modem, GPS
receiver etc.? Maybe the TNC is toast, but don't give up on it.
73 es cul - Keith VE7GDH
--
"I may be lost, but I know exactly where I am!"
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 13:22:48 -0500 (EST)
From: "William McKeehan" <mckeehan_at_mckeehan.homeip.net>
Subject: RE: [aprssig] DIGIpeater - Network performance
How can you have over 60 to 100 stations in your Aloha circle?
240 is 2.4 to 4 times too many stations, right?
http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/aprs/fix14439.html
The 1200 baud 144.39 channel can only support an average user load of about
60 to 100 or so APRS stations or objects in an RF domain based on the
typical transmission rates and number of digipeaters and number of hops.
See the breakdown and analysis. This is because any greater load than 100%
channel capacity guarantees lost packets due to collisions. The size of
your area that holds the number of users capable of generating 100% channel
capacity we call your ALOHA circle
--
William McKeehan
On Fri, January 26, 2007 1:02 pm, Robert Bruninga wrote:
>But since 2 hop users are one tier less than 2 hop digi's, most
>of the 240 users I hear on RF these days are within my ALOHA
>circle as we hoped:
>
>http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/aprs/DC-users.GIF
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 13:38:18 -0500
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga_at_usna.edu>
Subject: RE: [aprssig] DIGIpeater - Network performance
>How can you have over 60 to 100 stations in your Aloha circle?
>240 is 2.4 to 4 times too many stations, right?
Yes! The channel is still quite busy, but it is much much quieter than it
used to be. Looking at the heard statistics on most of these stations, it
is easy for me to see that most of them only come in a few times a day with
a lucky hit, rather than QRM all the time. SO it is not as bad as it
appears.
I'll run the station another 24 hours and be able to give statistics on how
many of those 240 statinos actually only appear less than 10 packets a
day... Thanks
Bob,Wb4APR
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 12:48:13 -0600
From: "Robbie, wa9inf" <mwrobertson_at_comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [aprssig] UIview Digiepater add-on
Bob,
Are you talking about an add-on for "digipeaters", or voice repeater
object add-on??? I thought you guys were trying to figure the best way
to advertise Voice Repeaters, the Icons are already advertising the
digipeaters, :-)
Robbie
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 14:25:51 -0500
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga_at_usna.edu>
Subject: RE: [aprssig] UIview Digiepater add-on
>Are you talking about an add-on for "digipeaters", or
>voice repeater object add-on??? I thought you guys
>were trying to figure the best way to advertise
>Voice Repeaters, the Icons are already advertising the
>digipeaters, :-)
Yes, it has been confusing with all the ideas flyng about. But this one is
for Europe where a lot of the digipeaters are not KPC-3+ TNC's which can
easily add the voice repeater object at the digi. In Europe a lot of the
digis are well situated home stations that are running Uiview as the local
digipeater.
And as it stands, you cannot TX a local -direct-no-hop- object from Uiview
unless you change your entire station to no hops for anything. So Jan
suggested an add-on for Uiview that will send these local voice repeater
object packets DIRECT only, independent of the station setting. But again,
this only aplies where a local wide area digi is running Uiview. This is
rare in the USA. But more prevelent in Europe.
If this feature is improperly used, of course, we will end up with a spam
nightmare. I hope the ad-on will only allow DIRECT packets only. Since if
it is a DIGI, it is HIGH and DIRECT is what is intended to cover the area
of the voice reepeater. If it is low, and needs to digipeat to cover the
same area as the voice repeater, then it probably shouldn't be a "digi" and
should not be sending ot these objects...
Bob, Wb4APR
------------------------------
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