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ZL3AI > APRDIG 22.12.06 00:09l 222 Lines 8589 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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To : APRDIG@WW
Message: 23
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 10:07:24 -0600
From: Gregg Wonderly <gregg_at_wonderly.org>
Subject: Re: [aprssig] PSKMail Live CD
Stephen Brown Jr wrote:
>How so? I respectfully disagree. That is exactly what they are doing
>with this system, playing "god" There are no other systems out there
>than can accomplish what theirs can (not yet anyhow), therefore we are
>forced to use their proprietary closed system and they decide who
>becomes a PMBO or not and if you meet their "criteria"
Quite a while back, I started the http://openlink.dev.java.net project to
try and recreate an opensource copy of the winlink UI that would wrap
around open source transports. I ran out of energy, and noone seemed
interested in helping me put together PSK31 or other digital mode
transports that I could interface into the system. So, I put it aside.
It's setting out there, and if someone wants to jump in and run with it,
that would be great.
Gregg Wonderly
W5GGW
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Message: 24
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 11:18:55 -0500
From: "Jeff Davis, KE9V" <jl.davis_at_gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [aprssig] PSKMail Live CD
All of what you say is true but much more appropriate to the Internet cloud
than amateur radio, IMHO.
Following your logic I could develop a new mode of operation that could
only be accessed using a certain ICOM transceiver (for example). Legal?
Yes... in the spirit of the hobby?
Creating and promoting exclusionary modes that require proprietary hardware
and software seems more like an old boys club than enlightened thinking --
especially when those signals invade the RF sandbox where we are all
allowed to play.
73, Jeff
On 12/20/06, Steve Dimse <steve_at_dimse.com> wrote:
>No, you aren't forced to use their system. You can go out and develop
>your own system!
------------------------------
Message: 25
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 06:59:29 -0600
From: Jason Winningham <jdw_at_eng.uah.edu>
Subject: Re: [aprssig] PSKMail Live CD
On Dec 20, 2006, at 6:53 AM, Jeff Davis, KE9V wrote:
>Oh, I don't know... how about the source code, is that freely
>available for WinLink?
Aren't the PACTOR III design and algorithm also closed?
It's their prerogative, but my money goes to open projects if I have a
choice, _especially_ in ham radio.
-Jason
kg4wsv
------------------------------
Message: 26
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 09:12:59 -0800
From: "Scott Miller" <scott_at_opentrac.org>
Subject: RE: [aprssig] PSKMail Live CD
>your own system! (This seems to be exactly what PSKMail did.) The
>creators of WinLink have an absolute right to decide who can play in
>their sandbox. Perhaps they turned your friend down because there
That's absolutely true, and they have every right to keep the system as
closed as they want. However, I don't happen to think that attitute is
best for ham radio. There's too much empire-building already, too many
armchair generals who want to wield whatever power they can get their hands
on for the sake of power itself, not to actually get anything accomplished.
Makes life difficult for those of us who just want to make things work. I
spent enough time with ARES, repeater groups, and local clubs to see how
that works.
I think open standards are ham radio's only hope. And as for the
possibility of having too many PMBOs or IGates in an area - if that's a
problem, then a better approach would be to engineer the system to be smart
enough to adjust automatically. There's a lot of literature and research
out there today on peer-to-peer networking. There are some hard problems,
especially in the RF domain, but they're not unsolvable.
>>To make matters worse, they told one of my friends that he could
>>come online as a backup PMBO and that they would need remote access
>>to his radio/computer equipment and can bring it up and down at
>>will. As you can imagine, that went over real well with him as I'm
That's just a poor (or at least overly simplistic) design. You can have a
backup mail server on the Internet without having to bring it up or down as
needed - you just set a lower priority MX record for it, and it only gets
used when nothing else is available.
>That is also the Achilles Heel of open source. Unless there is a
>strong manager and a shared vision, open source projects often look
>like a bunch of disjointed pieces thrown together. It is the reason
That goes for ANY software project. They all need strong central
management, open source or not. With open source, it tends to be things
like documentation and user interface design that get neglected, usually
because no one has the desire (or skills) to work on that 'boring stuff'.
I'm not a Winlink user, and what I saw when I started looking at it really
turned me off - it's just too closed and proprietary. Kind of like getting
your email service from AOL rather than a real ISP. I'd much rather
support an open standards-based system.
Scott
N1VG
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Message: 27
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 12:16:27 -0500 (EST)
From: Rick Green <rtg_at_aapsc.com>
Subject: Re: [aprssig] PSKMail Live CD
On Wed, 20 Dec 2006, Jeff Davis, KE9V wrote:
>All of what you say is true but much more appropriate to the Internet
>cloud than amateur radio, IMHO.
>
>Following your logic I could develop a new mode of operation that
>could only be accessed using a certain ICOM transceiver (for example).
>Legal? Yes... in the spirit of the hobby?
>
>Creating and promoting exclusionary modes that require proprietary
>hardware and software seems more like an old boys club than
>enlightened thinking -- especially when those signals invade the RF
>sandbox where we are all allowed to play.
Openness isn't just in the spirit of Ham radio, it's the law. On some
level, using the Amateur frequencies to make transmissions in proprietary
protocols could be seen as proscribed under the 'Codes and Ciphers' rule.
If the protocols that Winlink uses are indeed closed, then its use on the
ham bands is illegal, pure and simple.
--
Rick Green
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-Benjamin Franklin
------------------------------
Message: 28
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 09:34:20 -0800
From: "Herb Gerhardt" <hgerhardt_at_wavecable.com>
Subject: RE: [aprssig] PSKMail Live CD
I am an occasional Winlink user and it fills the needs when I am out in
hunting camp or anywhere away from home. It allows me to both send and
receive email without an internet connection. That certainly has its place
in my life and I certainly appreciate having that system available for FREE
to any ham that wants to use it. Then with their latest feature of
APRSLink, I can send and receive emails from my D7A or D700 without even
having a computer connected! What more could we ask for?
So, if you don't like the way it is operated, you don't have to complain,
just DON'T USE IT! That is pretty simple, isn't it?
Thank you Winlink for being there!
Herb, KB7UVC
NW APRS Group, West Sound Coordinator
Our WEB Site: http://www.nwaprs.info
------------------------------
Message: 29
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 12:53:23 -0500
From: "Brian B. Riley" <brianbr_at_mac.com>
Subject: Re: [aprssig] PSKMail Live CD
I guess I am feeling a bit 'proprietary' about this thread as it was
started by me to let people know where you could get PSKMail a new
technology, just featured in QST. It was to inform people where they could
find it for theirselves and that it was available from me for a small sum
if you didn't have access to broadband.
Then up jumps a comment from a guy who I can't remember the last time he
ever posted something positive and off we go on a flame war, a rather tame
one as iNet flame wars rank, but still unpleasant. I credit a handful of
the correspondents on the thread for trying to keep it mellow, but there
were still those who insisted on filling the air with rancor... sheeesh!
I suppose it shouldn't bother me so much, after all it has been ages since
APRSSIG has had a really decent pi**ing contest... but guys, really... grow
up, get a life!
---
cheers... 73 de brian riley, n1bq, underhill center, vermont
Home of the
K107 Serial LCD Controller Kit FT817 Power Conditioner Kit
Tab Robot Laser Tag Kit MSP430 Chips and Connectors
Propeller Robot Controller SX48 "Tech Board" Kit
------------------------------
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