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ZL3AI > APRDIG 29.10.06 22:10l 279 Lines 9015 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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To : APRDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Too many digi's ? (William McKeehan)
2. PHG calculation formula? (Alan P. Biddle)
3. PHG calculation formula? (Gregory A. Carter)
4. RE: PHG calculation formula? (Alan P. Biddle)
5. Re: PHG calculation formula? (Steve Dimse)
6. RE: PHG calculation formula? (Alan P. Biddle)
7. Re: Too many digi's ? (Patrick Green)
8. RE: Too many digi's ? (Cap Pennell)
9. Re: Too many digi's ? (Patrick Green)
10. RE: Too many digi's ? (Cap Pennell)
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Message: 1
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 15:07:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: "William McKeehan" <mckeehan_at_mckeehan.homeip.net>
Subject: Re: [aprssig] Too many digi's ?
I happen to agree with you - except for the small point that the cove
mountain digi does not support WIDEn-N. A new digi is expected to go up in
the same (or nearly the same) location soon (it was up for testing this
weekend, but had some non-APRS related issues and was removed for further
work). This new digi will respond to WIDEn-N.
There is also a new WIDEn-N digi North of Knoxville, in North Anderson
County (W4ACA) that provides coverage to the North where the cove mountain
digi was dropping off. This digi provides a good link up into KY from the
Knoxville area. I'm in favor of this digi remaining in place and acting as
a WIDEn-N digi.
You say that "everyone" should be fill-ins...do you think that all stations
should be fill-ins or just as necessary? These are the ones that I would
like to see reduced in number.
On Thu, October 19, 2006 9:19 pm, Patrick Green wrote:
>Seeing as I visited Knoxville, TN several times, I've made the following
>observations:
>
>1. The Cove Mountain digi should be the only Wn-N
>2. Everyone in the valley should be fill-ins.
>
>I've been able to hit Cove Mountain from Lenoir City to Bean station on an
>HT. Also it reaches London, KY in a single hop, and probably other digis in
>other directions of a similar distance.
>
>This is my opinion only. I don't live in the area so things may have
>changed drastically since I've been there.
>
>73 de Pat --- KA9SCF.
>
>
>On 10/19/06, William McKeehan <mckeehan_at_mckeehan.homeip.net> wrote:
>>
>>Over the past couple of years, APRS activity in my area has grown
>>dramatically. As more stations come on the air, the operators are tempted
>>to setup digi's and IGates.
>>
>>I don't think most of them really understand most APRS fundamentals. You'll
>>hear them say things like "Isn't that great, I can see stations from 600
>>miles away" and you will see paths like:
>>RELAY,WIDE3-3
>>RELAY,WIDE,WIDE2-2 (this is on several stations - one "expert" sharing
>>his knowledge to others)
>>
>>In an area approximately 60x60 miles, we have about 11 digi's and IGates
>>(some
>>stations are both, some only one or the other). Two of these digi's are
>>high
>>level digi's, one is nearly 3000 HAAT. Some guys are talking about putting
>>up
>>yet another digi right in the center of this area (<1000 ASL, so basically
>>0
>>HAAT in this area).
>>
>>I know that we are not in a good position now and adding more digi's is a
>>bad
>>idea, but I do not know how to convey this to some of these users. I want
>>to
>>discourage any new digi's in the area and suggest that some turn off their
>>digi's/IGates.
>>
>>Are there any guidelines (beyond common sense) to setting up digi's
>>published
>>anywhere on the web that I could point people to as something to back me
>>up?
>>or am I wrong and more digi's are OK?
>>
>>Looking for the right words to guide people in the right direction.
>>--
>>William McKeehan
>>KI4HDU
>>Internet: mckeehan_at_mckeehan.homeip.net
>>http://mckeehan.homeip.net
>>
>>Do not go where the path may lead,
>>go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.
>>- Ralph Waldo Emerson
--
William McKeehan
KI4HDU
Internet: mckeehan_at_mckeehan.homeip.net
http://mckeehan.homeip.net
Do not go where the path may lead,
go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 23:18:05 -0000
From: "Alan P. Biddle" <APBIDDLE_at_MAILAPS.ORG>
Subject: [aprssig] PHG calculation formula?
I was looking for the formula which is used for the PHG values for the
beacon. No problem finding a site which would calculate it, but I flunked
Google 101 on the formula itself.
TNX
Alan
WA4SCA
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 16:33:33 -0700
From: "Gregory A. Carter" <aprssig_at_gcarter.infodns.com>
Subject: [aprssig] PHG calculation formula?
Here's the snippet that calcs it from OpenAPRS's daemon...
power = pow(base_power, 2.00);
haat = (10 * pow(2.00, base_haat));
gain = pow(10.00, (base_gain / 10));
range = sqrt((2 * haat * sqrt((power / 10) * (gain / 2))));
73
Greg
N7NXS
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 11:23:50 -0000
From: "Alan P. Biddle" <APBIDDLE_at_MAILAPS.ORG>
Subject: RE: [aprssig] PHG calculation formula?
Greg,
Just what I was looking for. Many thanks!
Alan
WA4SCA
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 07:29:55 -0400
From: Steve Dimse <steve_at_dimse.com>
Subject: Re: [aprssig] PHG calculation formula?
On Oct 24, 2006, at 7:18 PM, Alan P. Biddle wrote:
>I was looking for the formula which is used for the PHG values for the
>beacon. No problem finding a site which would calculate it, but I
>flunked Google 101 on the formula itself.
The first hit when I search Google is perhaps the same calculator you
mention
http://www.nashvilleaprs.net/apps/phgcalc.php
Right below the title is the line:
The following calculator is derived from PROTOCOL.TXT as written by
Bob Bruninga.
which has this link
http://web.usna.navy.mil/~bruninga/APRS-docs/PROTOCOL.TXT
which has the formula.
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 11:41:19 -0000
From: "Alan P. Biddle" <APBIDDLE_at_MAILAPS.ORG>
Subject: RE: [aprssig] PHG calculation formula?
Steve,
Also useful. I didn't drill down to the calculator page to check for
documentation. Top marks for making it readily available!
Alan
WA4SCA
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:35:12 -0500
From: "Patrick Green" <pagreen_at_gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [aprssig] Too many digi's ?
On 10/24/06, William McKeehan <mckeehan_at_mckeehan.homeip.net> wrote:
>
>I happen to agree with you - except for the small point that the cove
>mountain
>digi does not support WIDEn-N. A new digi is expected to go up in the same
>(or
>nearly the same) location soon (it was up for testing this weekend, but had
>some non-APRS related issues and was removed for further work). This new
>digi will respond to WIDEn-N.
I knew that he wasn't updated yet and this I thought was a seperate issue to
the case in point?
>There is also a new WIDEn-N digi North of Knoxville, in North Anderson
>County
>(W4ACA) that provides coverage to the North where the cove mountain digi
>was
>dropping off. This digi provides a good link up into KY from the Knoxville
>area. I'm in favor of this digi remaining in place and acting as a WIDEn-N
>digi.
Actually, if WA4KJH-7 actually supported Wn-N, you would see the KF4OWQ-2
London, KY digi, because when in the Cumberland gap, I could hear both fine
and I could bounce via both of them when using a capatible path (WIDE1-1,TN
on the London side, and TN,WIDE2-1 on the TN side). It's good to hear
about the new sites.
>You say that "everyone" should be fill-ins...do you think that all stations
>should be fill-ins or just as necessary? These are the ones that I would
>like to see reduced in number.
This depends on what the network is trying to do. If you design it to
cover 50 watt mobiles, there are too many in the area, but it you are
designing it for HT style coverage you would want more. That's why I was
interested in the receiver site digi project so when a 50 watt mobile rolls
through an HT coverage area, they get one W1 hop rather than 3 or 4 of
them. My work on this area is stalled because APRSD just won't stop
crashing in this configuration.
73 de Pat --- KA9SCF.
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 08:49:34 -0700
From: "Cap Pennell" <cap_at_cruzio.com>
Subject: RE: [aprssig] Too many digi's ?
Actually, if WA4KJH-7 actually supported Wn-N, you would see the KF4OWQ-2
London, KY digi, because when in the Cumberland gap, I could hear both fine
and I could bounce via both of them when using a capatible path (WIDE1-1,TN
on the London side, and TN,WIDE2-1 on the TN side). It's good to hear about
the new sites.
Huh? A plain "SS" alias like TN is obsolete too. I hope you meant
"WIDE1-1,TN1-1 on the London side and TN1-1,WIDE2-1 on the TN side". But
to be heard through both digis, why not simply use the standard recommended
mobile path of WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 or the equivalent from home or Base, plain
WIDE2-2 for those two hops?
73, Cap
------------------------------
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