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G4EBT > LOST 01.10.04 20:01l 173 Lines 7662 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
BID : CF3180G4EBT
Read: GUEST
Subj: Re: How do we get out of Iraq
Path: DB0FHN<DB0MRW<DB0HOT<OK0PBX<OK0PHK<OK0NAG<OK0PPL<DB0RES<ON0AR<GB7FCR
Sent: 041001/1811Z @:GB7FCR.#16.GBR.EU #:14465 [Blackpool] FBB-7.03a $:CF3180G4
From: G4EBT@GB7FCR.#16.GBR.EU
To : LOST@WW
Andy, G0FTD wrote:-
> I'm a humanist, an infidel and a non believer, prepared to die for MY
> "non" ? beliefs !
If you really are a humanist, then you're a believer. Not in an abstract
deity onto whom you can shuffle responsibility for misdeeds, or seek
absolution from according to the chosen "brand", but a belief that human
beings should take responsibility for their own actions, not say they're
pre-ordained or pre-destined.
No - it's all down to you, and you alone. Nowhere to run.
Followers of all religions and beliefs will claim they pursue a philosophy
of non-violence and the vast majority do, but down the ages and all around
us today, we see examples of intolerance, danger, and death, justified on
the back of religion.
There are more Muslims than Methodists in the UK, and as far as I'm
concerned they're as welcome here as anyone. Most were born here anyway.
I'm horrified at the rise in "Islamaphobia" in the UK, whipped up by the
media, and by the abuse of stop and search powers by the police due to
racial stereotyping, under the guise of "security precautions".
I think that when - as has happened, the Police pull a black member of the
House of Lords out of a queue of 200 passengers in an airport check-in to
shake him down, and when a black Bishop, the head of the Campaign for
Racial Equality, an off-duty police superintendent, and the editor of six
black newspapers are all stopped and searched, it's time to start asking
some serious questions. What had these people done wrong? They were black.
Not a crime is it?
I'm just as horrified at anti-Semitism by those who can't separate the
Israel/Palestine situation from Judaism. Many Jews are deeply unhappy
about what's happening in Israel, just as most Muslims abhor suicide
bombers.
However, it's easy to see how a tiny number of those who follow Islam are
predisposed towards violence (which the vast majority aren't). Consider
this from the Islam Guide:
Quote:
Belief in God:
1) "Muslims believe in one unique incomparable God, Who has no son nor
partner, and that none has the right to be worshipped but him alone. He
is the true God and every other deity is false".
Unquote.
Taken literally and to its ultimate extent, that means no-one has the
right to worship any other God, and all other religions are null and void.
That's OK if that philosophy is contained within the ranks of believers.
It's not OK if extended to the point of saying that anyone who worships
any other deity is worshipping a false God, and that along with
non-believers are infidels who must die.
I'm not saying that's the view of 99.999% of Muslims - I know it isn't,
but it's the view of fanatical fundamentalists, as we've seen. Can't be
reasoned with - just fanatics.
Quote:
2) "God alone is the Almighty, the Creator, the Sovereign, and the
Sustainer of everything in the whole universe. He manages all affairs,
He stands in need of none of his creatures, He is the All-seeing, and
the All-knowing. He knows what has happened, what will happen, and how
it will happen. No affair in the whole world occurs except by His will".
"Whatever He wills is, and whatever He does not will is not and will never
be. His will is above the will of all his creatures. He has power over all
things, and He is able to do everything. He is the Most Gracious, the Most
Merciful and the Most Beneficent".
End quote.
(The upper case for "Him" and "He", "Most" etc, is theirs - not mine.
Even when indirectly referring to God they capitalise the word).
That's enough to illustrate that those who take this stuff too literally
can say whatever they're doing is "God's will" or God wouldn't let them do
it, so any and all of their actions are legitimate. (IE: Not "terrorists"
but "martyrs" en route to paradise).
1 & 2 above also imply that all the evil people in the world as well as
all the good people are God's creation - Hitler and Saddam as well as
Mother Teresa and Marie Curie. Cancer, as well as treatments for cancer,
but then I suppose[that can be said of most religions. If it's within any
God's gift to do so, why then is there so much suffering in the world? (A
rhetorical question to which I'm not seeking an answer).
If that's what they want to believe, that's up to them, as long as they
don't seek to compel others to fall into line. I don't share those
beliefs, and I don't expect others to share mine.
I think all religions are medieval, past their sell-by date, and it's well
past time for the human race to move on; to have a set of values that show
respect and tolerance towards others based on a human rights framework,
some aspects of which are embodied in most religions, but are often widely
ignored when the words are twisted to fit deeds.
"Thou shalt not kill" is an unequivocal statement. It is not qualified by
a codicil that says "unless you are in a tank on the West Bank and a
12-year old kid throws a stone at you in a futile gesture, in which case
you can put a bullet in him". (Happened today). Nor does it say it's OK to
specially target kill innocent people with IEDs as happens daily in
Baghdad and elsewhere.
Sincere though they may be, the constant references to God by Blair and
Bush (often when wearing his Commander-in-Chief bomber-Jacket), saying
they're praying for people, and the American motto "In God we Trust",
inevitably conveys the impression to many Muslims that the war in Iraq
is a US led Christian Crusade against Islam. I'm not saying that - my
view is that they've gone after the wrong people, in the wrong way, for
the right reasons.
Many observers will draw little distinction between a Muslim with a car
bomb, or a US helicopter gun-ship firing an RPG into a crowd of civilians.
Either way the end result's the same - innocent people die.
I mentioned the Islam site above, but the Websites on Christianity are
very little different in their emphatic wording. Islam, Christianity and
Judaism all share a number of common beliefs and practices.
They all portray beliefs as statement of facts, as they must - that's the
whole essence of "faith". ("A conviction of the truth of certain doctrines
of religion especially when this is not based on reason".
I'm pleased that England is a secular society in which no faith prevails
over any other. Even the Prince of Wales has changed his title from
"Defender of the Faith" (Christianity) to "Defender of Faiths" (all
Faiths). I've no idea what the religious leanings of my friends or
neighbours are and I don't care - it's an irrelevance, and I think
that's no bad thing.
Despite my own humanist views, I do feel it's sad that in this village -
the largest in England, with a population of over 20,000, there isn't a
Sunday School for kids. It isn't just that they aren't being taught
Christian values - too many aren't being taught any values of good
manners and good citizenship. (Plenty of attempts by the Churches to
get one up and running - no demand. A mosque maybe, one day soon?).
Rambling - not ranting.
Sent with peace and goodwill to people of all faiths and none.
Tagline of the day:
Ralph Waldo Emerson, American philosopher, author and poet, 1803 - 1882:
"American Radicalism":
"The spirit of American radicalism is destructive and aimless; it is not
loving; it has not ulterior or divine ends, but is destructive out of
hatred and selfishness".
73 - David, G4EBT @ GB7FCR
Eddystone User Group Member
G-QRP Club Member No: 1339
QTH: Cottingham, East Yorkshire.
Message timed: 18:49 on 2004-Oct-01
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