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VK3FBD > ENERGY 19.06.05 17:43l 273 Lines 10337 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
BID : 500295VK3FBD
Read: GUEST OE7FMI
Subj: re all previous posts
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Sent: 050619/1508Z @:VK3FRS.#MEL.VIC.AUS.OC #:52113 [Kilsyth] $:500295VK3FBD
From: VK3FBD@VK3FRS.#MEL.VIC.AUS.OC
To : ENERGY@WW
Hi All on the energy thread.
I normally don't buy into these threads but I do read most of what goes
past
on packet.
It seems to me that in this thread there has been a certain amount of
praise
for the "eco terrorists" attacking a certain UK ministers private
property.
Well I fail to see any difference between these type of home invaders than
any
of the others that we see on the six oclock news from the war torn middle
eastern countries.
I hope that the law stepped in and they were duly charged and fined for
the
offences that were reported.
We are seeing the same thing here with any person who wishes to have an
opinion
different to these groups is risking major damage to himself his property
and his children.
These scruffy extremists are, without doubt, abusing the freedoms that
they have under the
western style democracies. With the freedoms of democracy also go
responsibilities, a
point they seem to gloss over or miss totally.
Here in Australia, they forced a prominent member of a respected national
animal shelter
to hire bodyguards whenever he wishes to go out in public, to protect him
from
full frontal attack.
We have also had another "animal rights terrorist" cause an untold amount
of damage to
our legitimate sheep export trade by breaking and entering into private
property and feeding
inappropriate feed to the sheep quartered there.
With regard to the "ZL Andy", your approach to the problems of global
warming show to me at
least, that regardless of you being right or wrong, you at least have
tried to be rational
about your thinking. It's a pity the same couldn't be said for some of the
responses that
were put out denigrating you and your views.
To respond with the argument that "my books better than your book"
seems to me to be avoiding a rational response. A better comment would be
that
exactly as one respondent said "the problem is extremely complex". I
couldn't agree more.
It is so complex that all of the computer simulations that are being run
could be based on
false fundamental concepts or inappropriate algorythms and an equally
valid result
could be obtained by the highly technical process of reading tea leaves.
To those both for and against the various schemes put forward, I would
suggest a couple of
polite references to history...
(1) For how many years was the "FLOGISTON" concept an accepted theory
of combustion
which withstood all of the available tests using the then
scientific method.
(2) Being correct in his theories did not improve the life of
Copernicus and
many other scientists of that century.
(3) Bill Ludd was a victim of poor man management by his employer in
relation to
job security , and not worthy of the critiscism the term luddite
implies.
And finally just to comment and not to buy into one side or the other but
to just take the
part of the "common man" on the Clapham bus (to quote an old phrase I
learnt in a brief
legal studies course) I would like to pass on the following comments.
Like the VK6 ham in the thread, I have visited windfarms in Australia and
in the UK and I
find nothing terrible about them, quite the contrary I find them rather
inspiring and
majestic to look at. Should we declare war on Holland and force them to
remove the large
number of mass wind energy extraction devices that they have in their
country, don't be silly.
If installing wind generators causes economic loss to surrounding
properties, then
let the power companies buy out the properties and use the land as a
buffer zone for
the poor little displaced animals which we hear so much about.
This is a solution used here in Victoria where I now live. My property
abuts a large
stone quarry. The local government required the quarry owners to buy up
all the land
around the extraction zone to a distance of half a kilometer in all
directions. I find
this an excellent solution because it means that even though I live in
suburbia, I have
a rural existance starting at my boundary fence. It also isolates me from
the blasting noise
and allows unfettered habitat for the native animals.
The quarry does not harm my life style but rather enhances it. Surely this
same reasoning
can be applied to wind farms.
With regard to the comments on nuclear power, well I'm sorry but if the
Government wants
to put nuclear power plants at one kilometer intervals all the way around
the coast of
Australia to keep me supplied with drinking water then they can go right
ahead.
Currently the underground press is shouting that there is only ten weeks
worth of water
left in Sydney Australia, to quench the thirst of approximately 12 million
people.
Well apart from the weather, whos fault is that? For years there has been
attempts by
the Govt to build dams to build in a buffer for the dry years. All
thwarted by vested interests.
About 10 years ago I was,
prior to retiring, a grazier with a sheep property in New South Wales near
a small country
town called Braidwood.
There had been discussion for over 30 years on the building of a dam
nearby to tap
the Shoalhaven river to give Sydney a reserve water supply. All of the
land had been
aquired, plans had been published, when a meeting was called in the local
hall to
explain to residents the progress.
Well what a fiasco, dozens of old Kombi vans full of the great unwashed
turned up to make the
meeting a shambles by shouting down the speakers. More of them in fact
than the small
population of the town most affected. This is not urban myth or heresay, I
was there.
From what I could gather there were 5 or 6 unrelated groups all with their
own irrational
axe to grind, and woe betide any one who opposed their views, amusingly
enough
even each other.
As far as I recall the following were the main objections.
1. The earths crust would sink and rupture under the weight of the
water.
2. It would introduce climate change
3. It would damage the habitat of the wild pig.
Well as far as rupturing the crust, what can one say, Quick lets bale out
the oceans
before they cause crust ruptire as well. Change the climate, well yes I
hoped it would
because the introduction of a localised moister microclimate would help
the various types of
wild life, because Braidwood needed all the help in the form of water for
crops that it
could get, and with regard to the pigs well they are an introduced species
which in the
feral state absolutely destroy the countryside, they are such a pest that
major expense
has to be entered into in an effort to control them.
When it comes to a choice between me, my family and all of the other
people in Australia
versus the habitat of the backwards flying foo foo bird, well stiff luck
to the foo foo.
Australia has a large central desert area ideally situated for the
production of power
using solar methods or nuclear. I certainly take the point of one
contributor who made
the comment that it's an ideal place to site electricity generating
devices and ship the
power to the water stills at the coast.
A technical comment slipped in here with regard to seawater extraction is
that an issue
of "New Scientist", about mid last year I think", had a report on a method
of sea water
extraction that was heaps more efficient than the more usual boil the
water type of
distillation. If you want more details send me a bull and I will hunt it
up for you.
Perhaps as an incentive to avoid nuclear finger problems we could site the
workers houses
in a circle around the nuclear plant. Might be an incentive to be more
carefull when they
are making the choice between pushing button A or button B. Of course
living in that housing
should be compulsary for any person who has control over any part of the
input to
the nuclear plant. Its been my experience that most of the difficulties
with large production
plants are usually caused not by machinery design problems or staff
attitudes but by the
bean counters imposing such severe financial restrictions on repairs and
staffing that the
workers are forced to cut corners with the inevitable crunch time caused
by the
resultant failures and errors.
Somewhat tongue in cheek I would suggest that if we in Australia can take
the lead in utilising
our vast outback for power generation, then in years to come we may be
able to ship you hydrogen
or recharge your nickel cad batteries in bulk, to prevent you from
freezing to death in the
dark, which is the fate that many of the self interest greenie groups seem
to want to wish
on the Human Race. In the privacy of my own mind I refer to it as the
"Lemming Effect"
Like one of the respondents I would also urge caution on believing what
you read on the Web.
Most of the web posts seem to be heavily biassed towards the posters point
of view and almost
none of them meet the criteria that would be needed to get published in
legitimate form.
I refer to simple things like quoting (legitimate) sources, and being
subject to peer review.
The thrust of some posts on packet, "if you don't believe me look at such
and such a site"
does not lend scientific legitimacy to the statements made in the post.
Many of the posts
on the web remind me of the famous myth of several years ago relating to
the Noble Savage.
This misguided semi greenie approach to living caused many deaths before
it was finally put
to rest.
If you want more information google "noble savage myth" You may be lucky
and get
both sides of the story. Much of the current "greenie" dogma appears to be
a cut down form
of the Noble Savage lifestyle.
Well thats about all from me. I hope that I have upset the fors and
againsts about equally
and unlike the author of the original post to this thread I will be happy
to respond to
any comments. This is on the proviso that irrational hate mail contains
enough comments
of a rational nature to be able to make a response.
So stick with it both you "andys" and don't let the turkeys get you down.
Best of 73's from
Tony VK3FBD
P.S. Sorry about any spelling errors, I have spent so much time in my high
tech,
spell checking enhanced, computer aided womb, that typing on packet is
a trial.
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