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PA2AGA > TCPDIG 09.07.97 11:32l 181 Lines 6978 Bytes #-10571 (0) @ EU
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Message-Id: <tcp_97_41>
From: pa2aga
To: tcp_broadcast@pa2aga-1
Subject: TCP-Group Digest 97/41
X-BBS-Msg-Type: B
TCP-Group Digest Thu, 17 Apr 97 Volume 97 : Issue 41
Today's Topics:
Benefits of AMPR IP ...
What Protocole traceroute use ? (2 msgs)
Send Replies or notes for publication to: <TCP-Group@UCSD.Edu>.
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 21:16:23 +1000 (EST)
From: csmall@gonzo.triode.net.au
Subject: Benefits of AMPR IP ...
Brian A. Lantz typed:
> On 12 Apr 1997 skoric@uns.ns.ac.yu wrote:
>
> > You have right Brian, BUT, tcpip (except on its ends) is not RADIO neither
> > HAM RADIO. I often use my academy network, email, ftp, telnet etc, but all
> > this stuff is not (HAM)RADIO.
I think we have a problem here, TCP/IP is a network protocol that may be run
over a RADIO network then this is ham radio.
It's just a matter of is it STM-1 or FT-212? Who really cares what you send
over it.
> > But, it is difficult to say
> > if these non-hams would become radio-amateurs (beside their being Internet-
> > -amateurs or telephone-amateurs) if we all force non-radio protocols and
> > applications in way you say: "...carry data on them in order to build the
> > network we'd all like to have".
Gee wizz, you mean we may actually all run one protocol and all be able to
interoperate (talk) to each other over radio, no matter if we use a PC,
workstation or a minicomputer?
You mean that people playing around with a hobby might learn something that
they could use for their work as a side effect? You mean that (ok I'm
stretching it a bit here fellars) we might develop something that might be
used in the commercial world?
Now that would be a terrible thing wouldn't it? A real blow to amateur
radio.
> Who's to say what is a 'non-radio protocol'? TCP/IP over AX.25 is as much
> Amateur Radio as Netrom, or NO protocol at all is.
>
> What determines this? Well, since the link layer is still AX.25, then it
> *IS* Amateur Radio. The data inside the AX.25 does NOT change this.
I'd say that if you are running it over amateur radio then it is amateur
radio. I and many others run ax.25 of bits of wire or ethernet, does this
mean ax.25 is not amateur radio?
> > Do we (hams) really like to have NON-radio
> > tcpip network or what? I am not against tcpip and other newsgroups, email,
> > and all other "wired" TOOLS that are going to help us improving our RADIO
> > network.
The thing that will most help us improve the radio network would be
co-operation, this is something sorely lacking in at least VK2. It seems
you are more likely to meet a ham in the court room than in the shack.
> AX.25 is a modification of a 'wired' protocol. It is the link layer. All
> data in a link layer is equivalent, and anything passed over AX.25 **IS**
> Amateur Radio.
No, anything passed over radio is amateur radio.
> This whole idea that TCP/IP can ONLY be used with 'wired' networking is
> the same as saying that personal handwriting can only be used for
> correspondence sent via the Postal Service. That is, to say that you
> could NOT use your own handwriting unless the result of that handwriting
> was to be send in an envelope, with a stamp, and a postal carrier.
or considering early networks were radio-based (Aloha) then wire-based
networks just cannot work, ironic eh?
- Craig
--
// /\ | | | Craig Small VK2XLZ @home: csmall@gonzo.triode.net.au
||==||===|==|=| [44.136.13.17] @play: csmall@gonzo.vk2xlz.ampr.org
\\ \/ | | | finger csmall@triode.net.au for PGP key!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 21:27:12 +1000 (EST)
From: csmall@gonzo.triode.net.au
Subject: What Protocole traceroute use ?
Phil Karn typed:
> >Actually it's a good idea to block ICMP at firewalls for security reasons.
>
> Why?
You can start to map out a persons network using this sort of thing, wether
or not this is a real problem is debateable.
> handy to be able to see ICMP unreachables when you're trying to diagnose
> a network problem.
I found that out today, we were trying to see how something was routed and
well, we know the first two hops (to a filtering router).
> I still dream of the day when firewalls are obsoleted by decent host
> security.
You obviously don't work in MIS department ;) Everyone knows that firewalls
solve everything, they're shipping them to Zaire, Albania and North Korea as
we speak...
been one of those days.
- Craig
--
// /\ | | | Craig Small VK2XLZ @home: csmall@gonzo.triode.net.au
||==||===|==|=| [44.136.13.17] @play: csmall@gonzo.vk2xlz.ampr.org
\\ \/ | | | finger csmall@triode.net.au for PGP key!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 02:28:25 -0600
From: Bdale Garbee <bdale@gag.com>
Subject: What Protocole traceroute use ?
In article <199704151142.GAA21887@cool.site.net> you wrote:
:
: If you sit down and really analyze why a company is on the internet, you
: basically have a requirement for email on the clear internet, and
: interconnection of the company assets on the secure internet (WAN).
This is a pretty narrow view of the world. Some of us work for companies that
are making big bucks by being much more creative than that about using the
public Internet as infrastructure for multi-organizational development
efforts.
I'm not disagreeing with your basic notion that there are a lot of folks on
the
net who have no idea what they're doing or why, but I felt compelled to point
out that the world's a much more strange and marvelous place than you
describe.
73 - Bdale, N3EUA
------------------------------
End of TCP-Group Digest V97 #41
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