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Date: Sun, 25 Aug 96 23:56:11 MET
Message-Id: <tcp_96_171A>
From: pa2aga
To: tcp_broadcast@pa2aga-1
Subject: TCP-Group Digest 96/171A
X-BBS-Msg-Type: B
TCP-Group Digest Sun, 25 Aug 96 Volume 96 : Issue 171
Today's Topics:
advanced networking (4 msgs)
PPP/SLIP in connected AX25? (3 msgs)
PPP/SLIP over AX.25 (2 msgs)
WINNOS ? - A Proposal
Send Replies or notes for publication to: <TCP-Group@UCSD.Edu>.
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Problems you can't solve otherwise to brian@ucsd.edu.
Archives of past issues of the TCP-Group Digest are available
(by FTP only) from ftp.UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives".
We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party. Your mileage may vary. So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 13:57:41 -0700
From: brian@nothing.UCSD.EDU (Brian Kantor)
Subject: advanced networking
Yeah, my PS-186 is sitting in a box in the garage, with the software
for it only half-done. Like a lot of other projects, its time has passed.
I'd like to see something like what Steve suggests: a box that bridges
and/or routes IP from a household Ethernet over ham radio to other
similar boxes.
Don told me he'd planned on an Ethernet interface option for the
Gracilis PackeTen box. Would have been nice. I think the P10 is a
dead-end now. (Sorry, Gwyn.)
I think one of those dedicated entire-PC-on-a-card widgets with an
Ethernet adaptor and something that'd do 56kb, attached to a GRAPES
modem would be so advanced that most hams would be afraid of it.
But we could build a network with it. What's needed for THIS is a
simple buy-this-and-connect-that REPLICABLE station -- one that any
ham who wanted to participate could order up the pieces without the
fear of money flushed down a rat-hole, and get it on the air.
Even better than the GRAPES 56kb modem, something that did
spread-spectrum would be a great solution. (Glenn Elmore and others
have proven that the only practical way to do high speed radio
networking is with spread spectrum - all other methods are killed by
multipath). We've got LOTS of spectrum at 1200 MHz, and the STA lets
us play in any ham band above 30 MHz.
So what's the first step?
- Brian
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 23:17:41 -0500 (CDT)
From: Steve Sampson <ssampson@disco.oklahoma.net>
Subject: advanced networking
> I think one of those dedicated entire-PC-on-a-card widgets with an
> Ethernet adaptor and something that'd do 56kb, attached to a GRAPES
> modem would be so advanced that most hams would be afraid of it.
> But we could build a network with it. What's needed for THIS is a
> simple buy-this-and-connect-that REPLICABLE station -- one that any
> ham who wanted to participate could order up the pieces without the
> fear of money flushed down a rat-hole, and get it on the air.
>
I'm always impressed with those single-card PC's (embedded controllers)
advertised in Circuit Cellar INK. There are some that are affordable.
I think someone said it many times in the past, that this would be the
easy route. I don't know if the Gracilis drivers have been improved
any, but a CPU, Twin card, and an Ethernet on a passive backplane should
foot the bill. The modem side (56k) is advertised at $350 assembled by
PacComm. They also sell the Twin card. That leaves a transverter.
I don't have any recent Ham mags, but I suspect a 1200 MHz one is
available. I think the PI2 cards are reaching the end of production
according to the web page.
1. Software (drivers)
2. 56k Modem
3. DMA card
4. Ethernet card
5. CPU card (or use the PC)
6. Passive backplane (or an obsolete 386)
7. Transverter
8. Primary/Secondary HDPLX frequency plan (xtals)
9 Primary/Secondary FDPLX frequency plan (xtals)
10. Antenna
The idea in a project like this is to make a single frequency popular,
and then be able to switch easily to a secondary when it get's crowded
(uh huh). Sort of like 145.01 really sucked them in. Items 8, 9, 10
are probably already well known in Georgia. Most people have 4. To
package a product really requires 1, 2, 3, 7, 8, 9, 10. With 4, 5, 6
being optional. What most Hams enjoy is getting a box on the porch,
string some coax into the yard, stick a pole in the ground and hang
the antenna :-) Then next week after seeing if it all works, clean it
up and hang it on the roof or tower...
Steve
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 20:58:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dennis Rosenauer <rosenave@octoblob.rfnet.sfu.ca>
Subject: advanced networking
We are running a 56K network up here. 56K goes into the shack!
We have encountered all the problems that are being talked about here.
There is no solution but to go out an do something about it. Griping
about it doesn't get anything done. Yes you have to spend some money,
it is still a pretty cheap hobby compared to drag racing, sailboats, etc.
56K isn't all that expensive, if you look at some of the HF types
around here you will find thousands of dollars of ham gear in the shack.
A nominal HF transceiver will set you back $1000 easily these days.
Go to any swap meet and you will find lots of hams with $500 handhelds
strapped to their belt as a form of status symbol.
To solve some of the problems mentioned we did the following:
>
> I'd like to see something like what Steve suggests: a box that bridges
> and/or routes IP from a household Ethernet over ham radio to other
> similar boxes.
We go out to the computer swap meets and buy 2nd hand 386 and 486
motherboards, cases, small hard drives and ethernet cards. Put it
together, put Linux or NOS on it. Put a PIBoard in it, toss it in
the corner of the shack and call it a router. It works and it is
cheap. You can put the whole thing together for $100. No monitor or
keyboard is needed with Linux (you might need a cheap monochrome card
since some PC's won't boot without one)
> Even better than the GRAPES 56kb modem, something that did
> spread-spectrum would be a great solution. (Glenn Elmore and others
> have proven that the only practical way to do high speed radio
> networking is with spread spectrum - all other methods are killed by
> multipath). We've got LOTS of spectrum at 1200 MHz, and the STA lets
> us play in any ham band above 30 MHz.
>
We bought the GRAPES 56K modem kits. Everyone out here on 56K has one.
Some of us just bought the board and EPROM and scrounged the rest of the
parts. You're looking at $150 or so, add $20 for a box to put it in.
We designed our own RF gear for 440 MHz. Sold kits to everyone in sight.
Had a tune-up party (several times too).
Got a fifo buffer and with a modem and RF deck built several 56K repeaters
on 440 MHz. Did our own duplexer design for 440 and 100 KHz wide data
channels. Lots of time was spent in the machine shop on weekends making
the duplexer, we had a "hole taping bee" to tap the approximately 200
6-32 holes in all the aluminum bits for the duplexer. (many beers were
consumed, and we only broke one tap :-) ) The metal cost a few $$ at the
To be continued in digest: tcp_96_171B
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