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ZL3AI > APRDIG 16.08.03 23:57l 231 Lines 9646 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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Subj: TAPR Digest, Aug 13, 2/3
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From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: Re: WinAPRS NWS watch/warnings color changes???
From: "Curt Mills, WE7U" <hacker@tc.fluke.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 11:15:57 -0700 (PDT)
X-Message-Number: 10
On Tue, 12 Aug 2003, Jacob Tennant wrote:
>I can't seem to get the county maps for WV to change colors when a NWS
>watch/warning is issued?
>
>I have downloaded everthing that is listed for them to work but nothing
>happens?
Sorry. It was in the subject line, which doesn't appear when I'm
composing a message.
Not a WinAPRS user here.
--
Curt Mills, WE7U hacker_NO_SPAM_@tc.fluke.com
Senior Methods Engineer/SysAdmin
"Lotto: A tax on people who are bad at math!"
"Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates!" -- WE7U
"The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!"
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Subject: db.aprsworld.net back up
From: "James Jefferson" <jj@aprsworld.net>
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 15:09:02 -0500 (CDT)
X-Message-Number: 11
Hey everyone,
Most functions of db.aprsworld.net are back up, but the database was
started fresh today. It will probably be possible to restore the data that
was in it, but it won't be this week.
Once again, everyone that was accessing mysql directly using the guest
account needs to contact me with a sample of the query(s) they are doing
and I will grant them an account.
-Jim
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Subject: Re: WinAPRS NWS watch/warnings color changes???
From: "Jacob Tennant" <k8jwt@adelphia.net>
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 16:20:51 -0400
X-Message-Number: 12
WinAPRS latest version registered.
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Subject: Re: DSC decoding
From: "Joe Della Barba" <joe@dellabarba.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 16:26:51 -0400
X-Message-Number: 13
I will have to try 600 baud.
BTW, my GPS NMEA out feeds the laptop, DSC-VHF, and Tiny track no problem.
It can feed multiple "listeners" with the NMEA output.
73
Joe
N3HGB
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Subject: Duplicate Packets on RF/Inet Station
From: "Phil Pacier, AD6NH" <ad6nh@arrl.net>
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 17:40:59
X-Message-Number: 14
Hello all. My AD6NH station operates both on RF and on the Internet. I am
noticing that when I have a conversation with stations utilizing I or
Internet, the local IGates will still send them RF and my station will then
send RF acks as well as internet acks. Obviously, there is nothing telling
the IGates that I have already received the message via the Internet, and
so they continue to spit out duplicate RF packets until they get the RF ack
back to the other station. Clearly this is accounting for a great
overabundance of RF packets. Might we have to look at a way to let the
APRS IS know when a dual RF/INet station has received messages via internet
so they wont duplicate the entire conversaion on RF? The whole idea behind
using the Internet is to cut down on the RF traffic, but 90% of the
conversation is being duplicated on the RF channels. Is anyone else
experiencing this, and is there anything we can do about it? If you are an
RF/INet station, just watch your packet monitor window the next time you
have an Internet conversation. I almost guarantee you will see your local
IGate duplicating the conversation on RF. Thanks for your time. 73
Phillip Pacier - AD6NH
http://www.aprsca.net
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Subject: BMW MOA Forums - The Iron Butt Rally (11,000 miles/11 days)
From: <aa3jy@winlink.org>
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 23:27:49 -0000 (GMT)
X-Message-Number: 15
Bob and the APRS Crew
Here are pixs of the start of the 'Iron Butt Rally" in Missoula,
MT..hopefully you will recognize one of the bikes set-up for APRS.
Clay AA3JY
BMW K12RS
To: WB4APR
Subject: BMW MOA Forums - The Iron Butt Rally (11,000 miles/11 days)
http://www.bmwmoa.org/forum/showthread.php?s=94b63a8666def1ea90e525478f49=
d048&threadid'3
<http://www.bmwmoa.org/forum/showthread.php?s=94b63a8666def1ea90e525478f4=
9d048&threadid'3>
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Subject: Re: Duplicate Packets on RF/Inet Station
From: Steve Dimse <k4hg@tapr.org>
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 19:36:44 -0400
X-Message-Number: 16
Here is the algorithm for IGating messages...
Each IGate keeps a list of stations heard locally (local meaning at most n
hops on VHF...n varies between 2 and 3 depending on the IGate software, and
sometimes the configuration). Any message that appears on the internet to a
local station is considered for IGating. If both the originator and target
are in the "local" VHF station list, the message should be discarded. It
should also be discarded if the same packet has been sent out in the last x
seconds, generally 30, but also may vary with implementation.
The acks are end-to-end, meaning no list of messages is kept by the IGate,
a message is only resent on RF if the message re-appears on the APRS
Internet system after x seconds have elapsed.
If I understand the way you are describing the situation, it would seem
that both of these implementation rules are being violated. Yes, it is true
that if I send you a message on the internet, it would be IGated to RF by
any IGates within 2 or 3 hops of you. However, it would be a single packet,
it should not cause any significant QRM. If I understand what you are
saying the IGate keeps resending it, which should not happen (unless the
sending station never got an ACK from you, in which case the sending
station is repeating the packet.
If I am understanding this incorrectly, and you are complaining about the
single packet that gets sent, then the answer is no, nothing practical can
be done to prevent this, but again, it is a very small load on the channel,
as you internet ack should get there (there is no differentiation in an ACK
on the internet and rf, either will cancel the message when it is received
by the originating station.
If neither of these are what you mean, then please be more specific about
what you are seeing, shoing the actual dialog on both rf and Inet...
Steve K4HG
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Subject: Re: Duplicate Packets on RF/Inet Station
From: "Phil Pacier, AD6NH" <ad6nh@arrl.net>
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 18:59:13
X-Message-Number: 17
Thanks for your reply. First, I think I understand that what you are saying
is there is always going to be a dulpicate packet sent out to RF if there
is an IGate within 2 or 3 hops from me, no matter what. I don't agree that
we should accept this, and I think we should look at a way to prevent this
from happening. Being a novice programmer, I don't know if this is possible
or where we would even start.
Now, perhaps if I had only seen a single instance of the duplicate, it
would not have sparked my attention, but part of the situation has to do
with the fact that I am in Southern California. On a good propagation day,
there are as many as six Igates that can be within 2 or 3 hops of me.
Today, I was generally seeing 2-3 separate IGates trying to handle a
message that had already been received and acked via internet. The problem
is compounded when the station with whom I'm trying to contact is RF and
MUST use an IGate. The problem is further compounded when an ack is not
received on the first try via internet. This, in my case, could cause 2 or
3 IGates to resend the message, and my station would send an RF ack to each
specific path. It may not seem like a big deal, but when I was having a
conversation utilizing Internet messaging awhile ago, the RF packet count
at my station jumped some 60 packets above the average for this time of
day. I hope this helps you better understand what I am seeing. Thanks
again for your time. 73
Phil - AD6NH
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Subject: Re: Duplicate Packets on RF/Inet Station
From: Steve Dimse <k4hg@tapr.org>
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 20:19:27 -0400
X-Message-Number: 18
On 8/13/03 at 6:59 PM Phil Pacier, AD6NH <ad6nh@arrl.net> sent:
>Thanks for your reply. First, I think I understand that what you are saying
>is there is always going to be a dulpicate packet sent out to RF if there
>is an IGate within 2 or 3 hops from me, no matter what. I don't agree that
>we should accept this, and I think we should look at a way to prevent this
>from happening. Being a novice programmer, I don't know if this is possible
>or where we would even start.
It certainly isn't possible at this point. In order to do this, each IGate
would need to hold a packet for some length of time before sening it, which
none of the IGates have the capability of doing. Worse, implementing such
an algorithm would result in delays of ALL packets reaching the RF user,
something which is not a good thing.
>Now, perhaps if I had only seen a single instance of the duplicate, it
>would not have sparked my attention, but part of the situation has to do
>with the fact that I am in Southern California. On a good propagation day,
>there are as many as six Igates that can be within 2 or 3 hops of me.
That would be where to attack the problem. If this is really the case, then
there are simply too many IGates. On possibility would be to thin the
IGates out, or to change n, the number of hops for one to be considered
local, to 1 in your area.
Steve K4HG
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