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ZL3AI > APRDIG 27.07.03 12:51l 234 Lines 9251 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
TAPR APRS Special Interest Group Digest for Thursday, July 24, 2003.
1. Re: Trucks with 7 and more Wides
2. Re: Trucks with 7 and more Wides
3. Re: APRS Future
4. Re: Trucks with 7 and more Wides
5. Re: APRS Future
6. Re: Trucks with 7 and more Wides
7. Re: Trucks with 7 and more Wides
8. Re: aprs2.net Tier 2 Update
9. Re: Master HF TUNE station--was Bimini
10. Re: Trucks with 7 and more Wides
11. Re: GPS thoughts
12. Re: Trucks with 7 and more Wides
13. Re: Trucks with 7 and more Wides
14. Re: Trucks with 7 and more Wides
15. Question on I-gate
16. Re: Trucks with 7 and more Wides
17. Inverters and RFI
18. Re: Trucks with 7 and more Wides
19. RE: Question on I-gate
20. Re: Trucks with 7 and more Wides
21. Re: Trucks with 7 and more Wides
22. Re: Trucks with 7 and more Wides
23. Re: [ Bob Bruninga ] Re: Trucks with 7 and more Wides
24. Streaming Video, How to ? ? ?
25. NMEA 0183 version and kenwood
26. Re: NMEA 0183 version and kenwood
27. WinAPRS 2.7.2 message bug...
28. etrex / gecko and thd7a
29. Re: NMEA 0183 version and kenwood
30. RE: WinAPRS 2.7.2 message bug...
31. Re: etrex / gecko and thd7a
32. Re: Trucks with 7 and more Wides
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Subject: Re: Trucks with 7 and more Wides
From: "Sean \\The RIMBoy\\" <sean@rimboy.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 23:25:06 -0500 (CDT)
X-Message-Number: 1
On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Scott Miller wrote:
>Here's an idea. Large numbers of new hams don't bother to go beyond a Tech
>license because they're not interested in HF. So tweak the licensing rules
>so that in order to run unattended automated systems like APRS (or anything
>that's transmitting without your direct intervention) you've got to have a
>General class or better. Then add a section to the question pool about APRS
>paths, digipeater setup, gateways, and so on.
Why not add it to the tech class pool? That would make more sense.
Besides, the minute the nocode generals hit the street (I was almost one,
long story) you'll be saying that you need an extra class ticket.
>Yeah, it wouldn't be a popular decision for the most part.
No it would not, seeing as APRS was what finally made me get my license.
If I would have had to become a general to do it I probably would have not
ever done it period. APRS was my gateway drug (note, I upgraded to
general this spring).
>And it might not be the best way to go about user education, but I think
>the current licensing system is becoming less and less relevant to how
>people use ham radio today.
The problem is people themselves. I politefully asked a guy who setup a
WIDE digi to reconsider his aliases seeing as he sat between two wide's
both less than 30 miles away from his station. He sent me a rambling
email back stating that I had no idea what I was talking about and that I
could not possibly believe the QRM it caused him on one of his HF bands.
When I politefully pointed out that by changing his aliases he'd cut back
on the QRM he responded that no-one would tell him what to do. I never
told him what to do, just politefully suggested what might be best. He
took the station off the air. All the better. Not the outcome I wanted,
but it was not bad either.
The fact of the matter is, people run ego-digis, excessive wide paths and
other nonsense because they don't want to listen and don't want to be
helped. We've got WIDE digi's in our area with RELAY in their unproto
paths. Despite politefully hinting that it's not the right thing to do
we're at a loss because there's really nothing we can do.
James (K9APR) Bruce (KQ4TV) and I had a good talk at Dayton about some of
the stupidity we've seen in our areas and what if anything can be done
about it (not much was the conclusion). On my todo list is to schedule an
APRS meeting in our area ala the N. Texas one that made the rounds last
week. Unfortunately timing with any hamfests are not good at this point.
Frankly, I'd like to see some sort of enforcement action taken for those
running setups that are out of line. I hate to be nor hate for anyone to
have to play APRS police. However, if it's affecting my ability to
communicate then it's interference. Last I checked that's generally
frowned upon. I don't think this should be an FCC matter, but it would be
nice to have something with teeth. Otherwise I fear we'll all be running
the digi software for the palm that automatically corrects excessive
paths.
Sean...
--
Believing I had supernatural powers, I slammed into a brick wall.
--Paul Simon
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
KG4NRC http://www.rimboy.com Your source for the crap you know you need.
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Subject: Re: Trucks with 7 and more Wides
From: "Daron J. Wilson" <daron@wilson.org>
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 22:53:18 -0700
X-Message-Number: 2
>The fact of the matter is, people run ego-digis, excessive wide
>paths and
>other nonsense because they don't want to listen and don't want
>to be
>helped. We've got WIDE digi's in our area with RELAY in their
>unproto
>paths. Despite politefully hinting that it's not the right
>thing to do
>we're at a loss because there's really nothing we can do.
Perhaps the more technical solution is to fine tune the protocol so that
these incorrect operating procedures are not tolerated. Quite simply,
we need to think of the digi's as routers and develop them with the
adequate resources necessary to allow changes to be implemented on the
fly. Simple things like stripping the wrong path information off and
replacing it or simply rejecting the packet with more than WIDE3-3
should be part of the network management. Many networks require a
significant amount of control from above. In APRS, probably to allow
for flexibility, much of the ability to screw up the network is still in
the operators hands.
Just my idea..
73's N7HQR
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Subject: Re: APRS Future
From: "julian \(OH8GEJ\)" <julian@privateasylum.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 08:47:33 +0200
X-Message-Number: 3
Thanks for your reply John.
That gps was just an example of what is possible :)
I to would prefer to have the GPS built into the D7.
But for example connection from Palm or Ipaq to D7 could be done with
Bluetooth.
Have a look here.
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Subject: Re: Trucks with 7 and more Wides
From: Tim Schall <ka7pbi@fortgirlfriend.ampr.org>
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 23:53:47 -0700
X-Message-Number: 4
The SEA digi in Seattle, WA is already doing this. As are a couple of other
local digi_ned digi's. I'm currently trimming anything I see wider than
wide4-4 to an approriate number. In other words a packet arriving at SEA as
wide7-7 leaves as wide4-3. No hops used when it arrives. One hop used when
it leaves. A packet arriving as wide7-2 with 5 hops used is simply dropped
on the floor and ignored.
Key is to get these brain damaged Kantronics TNC's off of the mountain tops
and replace them with something that has a little more smarts in it.
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Subject: Re: APRS Future
From: "julian \(OH8GEJ\)" <julian@privateasylum.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 09:02:11 +0200
X-Message-Number: 5
I forgot the link to my reply to John.
Again just for the sake of showing what is possible.
http://www.wirelessfutures.co.uk/products/index.php?page=prod_pro_wlsc
But for example this could be built in to a D7 as well.
Just thinking, irregardless of price.
Best regards
Julian
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Subject: Re: Trucks with 7 and more Wides
From: "Dick Stanich" <dick@kb7zva.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 2:13:16
X-Message-Number: 6
>Simple things like stripping the wrong path information off and
>replacing it or simply rejecting the packet with more than WIDE3-3
>should be part of the network management.
Not simple...
If we simply start rejecting packets, how is anyone going to know they are
doing anything wrong? Yes, many of the header paths we see don't make much
sense. Then, how do we program a digi to reject a path greater than
WIDE3-3?
Awareness is the best coarse of action. Universal paths for truckers are a
problem because of digipeater inconsistency's across the country.
This is a bulletin/beacon sent out by a digipeater in Arizona:
'Welcome to Phoenix, Arizona -- Please set your path to WIDE2-2'
Good thought, however, the problem is that the bulletin is seen in 7
western states on RF.
This caught my interest. The bulletin is in spanish it has appeared on APRS
everyday this week... How's your spanish? Mine is terrible.
el path es IMPORTANTE que sea bien largo para llegar
PATH=RELAY,TRACE7-7,RELAY,TRACE7-7,RELAY,TRACE7-7
un buen path es impresindible prueva y veras
yo llego a tu estacion con este path ¨y tu a la mia?
prueva si llegas a esta estacion poniendo= ?H
si no llegas cambia tu path y aumentalo y veras
Dick, KB7ZVA
APRSWest
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