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ZL3AI > APRDIG 16.07.03 16:58l 233 Lines 9484 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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Subj: TAPR Digest, Jul 13, 3/4
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From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: Re: packet repeater?
From: Wes Johnston <wes@johnston.net>
Date: 13 Jul 2003 15:55:26 -0400
X-Message-Number: 23
Sri for confusion.... I want a packet REPEATER , say 144.39/147.40 split
for local access. THEN for the legacy users (ie travellers who have no
way to know in advance what the repeater's input is, I want a seperate
DIGIPEATER which just happens to use the repeater's TX radio. I know
this is VERY unconventional. The TNC will of course advertise it's
alternate input frequency on 144.39
When someone wants to use the system via the repeater part, they will
listen on 144.39, and hearing nothing will key their radio and TX on
147.xx . A bit regenerating packet repeater will regenerate their
1200baud audio tones and play them on 144.39 (the output of the
repeater). Users of this part of the site should never use RELAY in
their path.
Now, when someone rolls thru town and has no idea there is a packet
repeater, he will simply keyup on 144.39 and TX. A TNC at the repeater
site listening to 144.39 will hear that packet. It will then digipeat
that packet just as a normal digipeater does today using the same
transmitter as the repeater in the above example... just a second or two
later after the originating station has finished transmitting.
So what I'm proposing here is a dual mode access digipeater... which
will allow mobile users a fair shot at seizing a channel.
When
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Subject: Re: packet repeater?
From: Bill Vodall - WA7NWP <wa7nwp@jnos.org>
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 13:47:06 -0700 (PDT)
X-Message-Number: 24
>I want a packet REPEATER , say 144.39/147.40 split
>for local access. THEN for the legacy users (ie travellers who have no
>way to know in advance what the repeater's input is, I want a seperate
>DIGIPEATER which just happens to use the repeater's TX radio. I know
>this is VERY unconventional. The TNC will of course advertise it's
>alternate input frequency on 144.39
A real packet REPEATER is the way to go for the local network. No
(essentially) hidden transmitters. Everybody hears (effectively) everybody
else and you get incredible performance compared to what you see on a
digipeater plagued system like 144.39.
The hard part is building the repeater. Since it's a real repeater you
have all the issues such as isolation, duplexers, circulators and
coordination to deal with. This is far more involved then setting up a
digipeater. Any shortcuts you take here in building the repeater will
result in a loss of performance.
(The best thing that's happened for Packet radio is the ease of building a
Digipeater. Likewise, the worst thing that ever happened for Packet Radio
is the ease of building a digipeater.)
I would keep it totally separate from 144.39. All you need to tie the
local REPEATER system to the APRS network is one home stations running any
of the software packages with Igate functionality.
Additional features can be obtained using a package like Digi_ned to tie
the local 144.39 system to the REPEATER. The performance on the repeater
is so much better then a digi system it's feasible to gate to RF much
additional information. The full Wx feed would be one example. That would
clog the 144.39 system. It would be just a bit more traffic on a REPEATER.
As long as your going to make the effort build a REPEATER, you could make
it 9600 baud for more throughput yet. The D7's and -- if you're willing to
compromise the system -- the D700's, can easily use it.
Another consideration, I believe, is that it's not currently legal to have
144.39 tied to a REPEATER as it's outside of the offical bandplan. (That's
yet another archacic regulation holding back progress and innovation that
needs to be removed from the books... IM!HO)
Here in Seattle we (Wetnet) have a 9600 baud UHF digital REPEATER tied to
APRS via APRSD. It's turned out to be a problem of preception and
convenience. Some folks have tried using it, found it worked and then went
back to 144.39 as overloaded and busy as it is. The same behavior is being
seen on the alternate 1200 baud UHF APRS network that K7OFT and a couple
others are developing here.
73,
Bill - WA7NWP
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Subject: Re: packet repeater?
From: Gerry Creager N5JXS <gerry.creager@tamu.edu>
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 15:56:09 -0500
X-Message-Number: 25
Neither Digined nor a Kantronics TNC will do regeneration, but TAR has
boards to accomplish this.
The concept of a 2-freq, regenerative repeater, much like a voice
repeater, both has a faster turn-around than a store and forward system
(eg, digipeater), and markedly reduces the hidden-transmitter problem.
gerry
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Subject: Re: packet repeater?
From: David L Norris <kg9ae@webaugur.com>
Date: 13 Jul 2003 16:02:24 -0500
X-Message-Number: 26
On Sun, 2003-07-13 at 14:55, Wes Johnston wrote:
>Sri for confusion.... I want a packet REPEATER , say 144.39/147.40 split
>...
>So what I'm proposing here is a dual mode access digipeater... which
>will allow mobile users a fair shot at seizing a channel.
So, you wouldn't need cavities at all. Simply tap the second receiver
into the TR switch in your main transceiver. The whole system would
still be half-duplex since the local nodes will hold-off while either
the repeater or the digi portion is transmitting. You could have the
split 5 KHz away if you like. The simplicity of the overall system
would rely on your choice of radios. If you use separate receivers and
transmitter, such as Hamtronics (or whatever might be equivalent), you
would simply piece together a transceiver assembly which toggles a TR
switch between a single transmitter and two receivers. The impedance
matching for the receivers can be done with two 1/4 wave coax segments.
--
David Norris, ARS: KG9AE
http://www.webaugur.com/dave/kg9ae/
ICQ - 412039
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Subject: Re: packet repeater?
From: "Brent Hildebrand" <bhildebrand@earthlink.net>
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 14:02:44 -0700
X-Message-Number: 27
Repeater operation is not allowed at 144.39 MHz. Any of the packet
channels round 145.000 MHz would work, with output in the 147 segment.
/Brent
97.205 Repeater station.
(b) A repeater may receive and retransmit only on the 10 m and shorter
wavelength frequency bands except the 28.0-29.5 MHz, 50.0-51.0 MHz,
144.0-144.5 MHz, 145.5-146.0 MHz, 222.00-222.15 MHz, 431.0-433.0 MHz and
435.0-438.0 MHz segments.
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Subject: Re: 6M Packet Freq? 1200bps
From: Bill Vodall - WA7NWP <wa7nwp@jnos.org>
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 14:53:11 -0700 (PDT)
X-Message-Number: 28
On Sun, 13 Jul 2003, Ev Tupis (W2EV) wrote:
>Originally, it was 53.530 FM. All activity has now moved to 50.620 FM.
That, I think, is great news. Any archives of the discussion and
announcements leading to the change?
53.53 was "socially" unuseable here since the local repeater coordination
group was inflexible about protecting their non-stardard 6 meter allocation
scheme. It's a good innovative allocation scheme but it was given priority
over actual on the air activity. (Grumble grumble)
The move also removes an issue I had with PropNet activity on 53.53. I
don't believe it's worth the investment to go through all the work set up a
system dedicated to send out a zillion packets over the year and see only a
few picked up on a couple days.
My idea was to build a local functioning network and mine the resulting
packets for band openings. In light of that I was going to crystal up
(once again) my old IC-60 and try to get some local APRS/BBS/TCP packet
activity going on 50.62. Now it's even more worthwhile to get on 50.62.
We'll use the channel and be ready to catch DX packets when they show up.
I'm currently mining the local APRS packet information daily for DX hits.
http://www.jnos.org/javAPRS/tnc/dx.txt
It's not really useful yet as I need to make it smarter to pick out the
real openings from the far too frequent packets by the digipeaters that are
far too high and hear far too much. I should also filter out what are, I
believe, digipeaters still running in ID mode.
>Visit: http://www.PropNET.org for more information.
Too much flash - can't find information.
73,
Bill - WA7NWP
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Subject: NOSaprs 1.15b6 ready + brand new documentation
From: Maiko Langelaar <maiko@langelaar.net>
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 17:12:21 -0500
X-Message-Number: 29
Greetings,
NOSaprs release 1.15b6 is available now in the form of a patch kit that can
be applied to versions 1.15b3 and higher. If you are not at 1.15b3, PLEASE
upgrade from your older versions. That will ensure proper compatibility
with the current system. The older versions should no longer be used
anymore.
Also, I've put in ALOT of effort to get the user manual back in line with
the latest release of software. New, improved, with alot greater detail,
all 23 pages. Proof readers welcome + comments.
As usual, the URL for the software and documentation is :
http://www.qsl.net/ve4klm/packet/aprss.html
Best regards,
Maiko Langelaar / VE4KLM
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