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ZL3AI > APRDIG 12.05.03 09:51l 246 Lines 9355 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: Re: Tiger maps!
From: "Bill Diaz" <william.diaz@attbi.com>
Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 10:20:15 -0500
X-Message-Number: 7
Gerry,
See below:
>-----Original Message-----
>From: bounce-aprssig-28856@lists.tapr.org
>[mailto:bounce-aprssig-28856@lists.tapr.org] On Behalf Of
>Gerry Creager N5JXS
>Sent: Friday, May 09, 2003 07:48
>To: TAPR APRS Special Interest Group
>Cc: TAPR APRS Special Interest Group
>Subject: [aprssig] Re: Tiger maps!
>I hesitate to get into this, but in defense of the Bros
>Sproul, "fixing" Precision Mapping will be hard.
>The original folks, Chicago Maps, who
>wrote the original code (well, to be precise, they
>openned the development source tree up to the developer
>community and then retained rights to the development
>code... and used it) are long gone.
> I don't recall the exact sequence of successive
>acquisitions, but they've been
>bought and sold several times.
Chicago Map is now UnderTow Software. They are still in business, and
support all of the Chicago Map products.
I am under contract to UnderTow to bring new products to market and to
provide developer support. I have been working with Mark to resolve the
inability of WinAprs to display full screen maps. Hopefully, he will have a
fix implemented before long.
>Their original code wasn't too bad; their later code
>hasn't been too bad, at least based on implementation.
>However, they have changed their application programming
>interface several times, and have generally wanted more
>money from any developer wanting access to it. This is a
>fairly standard ploy in the software trade, but it's still
>expensive to the developer.
The changes to the API since vers 3.5 (1997) have been to implement
additonal capabilities. There were changes to a few calls to improve the
interface and operation. I was employed full time by Chicago Map (in a
previous life<g>), and can assure you that code that I wrote in 1997 will
still work with the current MapOCX and MapPro releases with only MINOR
changes.
Mark has been faced with a few more challenges, since his development
environment does not provide seamless support to incorporate OCX's. He must
provide nitty-gritty inteface code that is already provided by development
environments such as Visual Basic, Delphi, etc. There have been some
changes in the OCX that required him to re-write portions of these basic
interfaces. However, the API's themselves did not change.
UnderTow charges licensed developers a fee to obtain the right to develop
mapping applications with their development tools. In addition to the
initial fee, the developer is NORMALLY charged a licnese fee for each
distributed application.
Chicago Map agreed to waive license fees for APRS users in 1997. UnderTow
continues that policy today. The only requirment is for APRS users to
purchase Precision Mapping Streets 5.0 retail product. List price $xx.xx
and ugrade price of $xx.xx.
>WinAPRS isn't too expensive for what you get, if that's the
>way you want to go. It's not fair, really, to compare
>price of WinAPRS to the price of anything else. The only
>commonality is that all the Windows-enabled clients
>appropriately detect and decode APRS data and display it.
>Otherwise, the feature sets are different, and there's not
>arequirement that anyone buy -- or develop -- ANY APRS
>client.
UiView also can use Precision Mapping Streets data.
>All that said, the cost of acquiring yet another API,
>and then the costs in family time and time off from work
>associated with implementing that API into another rev of
>code, testing it, releasing it, fixing the bugs
>that snuck through the testing cycle, and listening to the
>grousing on a public list, are frequently not worth the
>additional pain of upgrading APIs.
>I'm not sure of the motivation Mark had for adding
>Tiger, but I can guess there were at least a couple:
>"Everyone" has been going there... Xastir has had
>Tigermaps for well over a year (but again,
>that's apples vs applecarts: xastir's on Linux
>[Cut me some slack, here, Curt!]). The
>various mapping systems, DeLorme, PM, etc., rely
>already on Tiger data for their basemaps and there's no
>good reason we (APRS in general) shouldn't do the same.
>TigerMaps are produced by the US Government on a
>regular basis and their value (GNIS/geocoding; precision;
>accuracy both spatially and in terms of digitizing) is
>improving with each
>iteration.
There are numerous errors in Tiger files. Incorrect street attributes,
misspelled street names, missing street names etc. There are also many
complaints about ommissions. A common complaint is a street where the user
has lived for 20 years is not included in the Tiger data.
Most commercial products that use Tiger data as a starting point must clean
the data up before offering it for sale. Many products add street data not
found in Tiger files at the time of the last release. Some of the vendors
offer quarterly update subscriptions.
Precision Mapping MapPro 6.0 (anticipated release date is June 1) will be
using GDT street data rather than Tiger data. The GDT data is far more
detailed, precise and up to date than Tiger data. I hope to have some
examples to show at Dayton if anyone is interested.
>I think, in general, adding a Tiger feature was a plus for WinAPRS.
Yes,
Bill KC9XG
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Apology to MB K3NMR
From: "Howard Coleman" <n6vdv@onemain.com>
Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 10:06:37 -0700
X-Message-Number: 8
From: Howard Coleman
Date: Friday, May 09, 2003 09:56:41
To: APRS List Server; MB@gbronline.com
Subject: Re: Fw: [aprssig] Delorme SA5 Mapping softwaer]
I have to accept that you did not receive my previous response which was
sent directly to you rather than taking up bandwidth on a personal situation
After your explanation, I saw how I did read your message from the wrong
angle, which was my error and I did offer my apology. I am sending this
message to your personal e-mail address and to the sig to be sure you get my
response.
Not sure what else I can do except to apologize for misreading the intent of
your message. Don't understand what "wrong profession" you are referring to
I have been medically retired since 1995 though I do wish I could continue
working. Before retiring, my primary profession was in telecommunications
where I still, once in a while, take on short assignments as a consultant.
It has been many, many years since I wrote programs, which was a sideline to
my primary occupation.
Perhaps the one, long-running private enterprise of sticking my foot in my
mouth is the profession that you referred to.
I've apologized in a private message and now in an additional private and
public message and my apology is sincere.
- 73 -
Howard Coleman N6VDV
Official Observer Coordinator, Santa Barbara Section
ARRL Emergency Communications Course Mentor/Certified Instructor
805 889 8630
n6vdv@onemain.com
-------Original Message-------
From: MB
Date: Friday, May 09, 2003 07:36:28
To: Howard Coleman
Subject: Fw: [aprssig] Delorme SA5 Mapping softwaer]
Hi Howard ... FYI
I am hoping that, like Claud, the rest of the Ham fraternity has accepted my
query as it was intended.
I think I understand the reason for your communication.
If it is what I think it is, it is possible you are in the wrong
profession.
I hope I am wrong.
Best to you,
73,
de MB (K3NMR)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: MacAPRS 3.7.1 now up on www.winaprs.org
From: Mark Sproul <msproul@jove.rutgers.edu>
Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 13:03:44 -0400
X-Message-Number: 9
The new mac version is now up on www.winaprs.org/downloads
All of the instructions about the Tiger maps are EXACTLY the same for
the Mac version
This is a MacOS9 release, it runs fine under MaxOSX as well in
classic mode. I am working on OSX version
Mark
------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Sproul |
http://ecs.rutgers.edu |
msproul@jove.rutgers.edu |
Manager - Engineering Computing Services | 732-445-3121
Rutgers University School of Engineering |
Eng D111 |
------------------------------------------------------------------
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Subject: RE: Need two old TNC chips
From: Miller Scott Contr 30SCS/FTI <Scott.Miller@vandenberg.af.mil>
Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 17:41:08 -0000
X-Message-Number: 10
Can anyone verify that the KPC-3+ uses an HC11? What variant? Does
Kantronics still provide a full schematic?
If it's got an HC11, I guess it's time to upgrade. There's no way I'm going
to mess with an oddball Hitachi clone when I already know the HC11 and have
access to development tools.
What modem chip does the 3+ use? The 3's got a TCM3105, but that was
discontinued years ago.
Another few weeks and school's out... maybe when the kids are off visiting
their grandparents for the summer I'll actually have a chance to work on
some of these projects. =]
Scott
N1VG
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