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ZL3AI > APRDIG 04.05.03 19:16l 263 Lines 9802 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: Re: Recommendations
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 16:46:23 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 7
Mesasges to "PATH and "IPATH" will not be captured by any Kenwood or
normally configured APRS station. The need to be bulletins if you want
people to see them without having to widcard and open up their front ends
to every packet on the air...
Bob
On Sat, 26 Apr 2003, Wes Johnston wrote:
>Here's the solution......
>All you digi owners create an APRS formatted message in one of your spare LT
>buffers. Transmit it only direct, or maybe one hop. The message will
>contain the best LOCAL path. For example, RELAY, WIDE may be needed in an
>area which does not contain a WIDEn-n digi. Or RELAY, WIDE2-2 if local
>customs permit. The message should be addressed to PATHS and transmitted
>every 5 minutes. A second message can be sent to IPATHS. The message will
>contain the best LOCAL path to get to an IGATE. For example, in Sumter, SC,
>the best local path is simply RELAY to get to an IGATE. The most important
>thing here is that you want these messages to go out over a SMALL area.
>Your digi's APRS Posit and ID may "advertise" over a wide area, but these
>messages are specifically intended for people who can hit your digi direct.
>If this catches on, later the ham hud folks or the open trac folks can
>decode that message and modify their paths to match it. Best of all, it
>requires no firmware upgrades.
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Subject: RE: Recommendations; Was: Just trying to understand.
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 16:55:36 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 8
On Sat, 26 Apr 2003, Cap Pennell wrote:
>FYI, despite some small risk of "over-generalizing" here, I'll say:
>
>Everything West of the Rocky Mountains uses WIDEn-N.
And the recommended path for a WIDEn-N network is:
For fixed stations use:
DIGI,WIDEn-N so people see where you entered thee network
For Mobiles use:
RELAY,WIDEn-N. This should work everywhere. It has many advantages:
1) It will work anywhere (RELAY is supposed to be supported everywhere)
2) All RELAY digis do call substitution and should therefore stilll
identify where you are entering the network (even if you park under a
roof, or in a parking garage or in a whole or turn your GPS off or any
thing else. We can still see where you enter the network.
Of course there are many people that still do not understand this basic
concept (mostly because of some people's abuse of RELAY) so they turn off
RELAY to solve these problems when what they should be doing is educating
the users that are causing the problem. Turning off RELAY is kind of
like disabling 911 on a phone system because some people dont use it
right.
de WB4APR, BOb
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Subject: Re: wide?
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 17:00:36 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 9
On Sat, 26 Apr 2003, tvsjr wrote:
>I would venture that most of the mobile trackers not only want to go out
>via the Internet, but also want N hops of RF coverage...
Where N is 3 or less!
Bob
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Subject: Re: Recommendations; Was: Just trying to understand.
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 17:23:24 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 10
Everyone should read the original APRSdos docs. see DIGIS.TXT and or
MOBILE.TXT...
On Sat, 26 Apr 2003, Rich Osman wrote:
>Ya know guys, it seems like there really needs to be a uniform set of
>recommendations. I know this is hard to acheive in the delightful
>anarchy that is the ham community, but we really need it. I'm not
>suggesting that we manage the anarchy, just provide a little light for
>those willing to look for it. There's a lot of emotional response to
>settings out there, but I believe that most hams are willling to 'play
>nice' even if their opinion of nice varies a lot.
>
>I've seen opinion web pages, which a lot of people around here cite that
>that recommend frequent beacon messages (not IDs, beacons) that include
>TRACE paths and WIDE3-3 (or 5-5) paths. Why is it important for a digi
>to beacon (beacon, not ID) at all, much less this frequently and with a
>TRACE path on all the time? I know it's nice to see your call out
>there, but removing the ego, how is it used? Does the value merit the
>channel load? I've had people tell me that mobiles need this data.
>They do? Really? Don't mobiles know they are being digi'd by seeing
>the packets? I can't remember ever seeing a mobile using a fixed path
>that wasn't associated with an event.
k
snip
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Subject: Re: PCSAT2 on the air
From: David VanHorn <dvanhorn@cedar.net>
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 16:31:10 -0500
X-Message-Number: 11
At 03:57 PM 4/27/2003 -0400, Bob Bruninga wrote:
>On Fri, 25 Apr 2003, Reid Crowe wrote:
>
>>I assume PCSAT2 is NOT in space. Is that correct?
>
>Yes that is correct
>Bob
Low-Geosync :)
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Subject: Re: wide?
From: tvsjr <tvsjr@sprynet.com>
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 16:37:51 -0500
X-Message-Number: 12
Why? For general purpose use, maybe. However, when I'm travelling between
Austin and Dallas, I can't make it to either city with three hops. Just for
the trip, I change the path to RELAY,WIDE5-5, and I'm seen on RF in both
places (there really are people that track using RF, not the APRS-IS,
especially those with mobile computers or D700s). The digis between Austin
and Dallas aren't loaded heavily, so using them to make the trip to either
city isn't a problem.
If I were going to configure an emergency beacon, I would likely set the
hop count even higher, so the message would spread further via RF.
It's important to remember that the goal of APRS is NOT just to reach an
IGate, but to provide positioning and other information via RF.
73
Terry/N5RSE
At 05:00 PM 04/27/2003 -0400, Bob Bruninga wrote:
>On Sat, 26 Apr 2003, tvsjr wrote:
>
>>I would venture that most of the mobile trackers not only want to go out
>>via the Internet, but also want N hops of RF coverage...
>
>Where N is 3 or less!
>
>Bob
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: PCsat turned OFF.
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 18:01:24 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 13
PCsat off:
On the 2148z pass over the USA Sunday Afternoon, I set the callsign to
NODIGI and turned the PCsat digi off. She was in negative power budget
and this is a last ditch effort to recover her. I think she went power
negative last night while I was out of town.
She will probably forget these settings on each pass, so our best chance
of getting her back is if everyone turns off all stations trying to
digipeat through her until we can get her back into positive power budget.
Thanks!
de WB4APR@amsat.org, Bob
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Subject: RE: Recommendations; Now WIDE path
From: Bill Vodall <wa7nwp@jnos.org>
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 15:02:32 -0700
X-Message-Number: 14
>For fixed stations use:
>DIGI,WIDEn-N so people see where you entered thee network
It's an old discussion but it's a good one.
A fixed DIGI here is a potential source of losing connectivity if that digi
goes down. If there is ever a critical time to use a certain DIGI, then
Murphy will jump in and something will happen. It's best to be prepared
and keep things as generic as possible. Better a couple extra packets now
when it's not critical then no packets when it is critical.
Better to use WIDE. I.E. WIDE,WIDEn-n
Some programs, like APRSDOS, allow using different paths on a random basis.
They could go with different fixed digi's. This is good.
73,
Bill - WA7NWP
PS. Software could learn and use the digi's that work. This would simplify
configuration, make the networks more robust and networks would be more
efficient.
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Subject: Re: Ver.2: Another thing I'd like to see...
From: "Ev Tupis (W2EV)" <w2ev@arrl.net>
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 20:05:09 -0400
X-Message-Number: 15
>>I wonder why APRS hasn't exploited the advantages of connected mode
>>more. Hmmm.
>
>Because connected mode is terrribly innefficient for delivering lots of
>infomration between everyone at once.
I didn't say anything about point-to-multipoint. That's a well known
advantage to unconnected frame communications.
I simply pondered: if there are advantages to connected mode communication,
why not exploit them more deeply, where it makes sense to do so? Obviously,
point-to-multipoint doesn't make sense, however... what about
point-to-point messaging?
As I understand it, you are emulating connected mode within unconnected
frames by forcing n-retires and acks before simply timing out (and not
knowing if the message actually got through and it's the ack that didn't
get back to the originator). What an incredible waste of channel space.
Imagine a system that used connected mode to pass such point-to-point
traffic. Now THAT's a feature that I'd like to see. It provides guaranteed
delivery, and I believe would actually reduce overall channel load. In
fact, it could provide even more reliable REAL TIME communication than the
present UI-Frame "pseudo-connected n-acks then abandon" method.
Are there other areas where connected mode would make sense? Maybe...I'm
simply asking the question.
Ev, W2EV
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