| |
ZL3AI > APRDIG 02.03.03 10:22l 285 Lines 10379 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
BID : 952-ZL3AI
Read: GUEST
Subj: TAPR Digest, Feb 26, 1/7
Path: DB0FHN<DB0RGB<DB0MRW<DB0BOX<DB0GAP<DB0KFB<DB0CZ<DB0GE<LX0PAC<LX0HST<
HA3PG<7M3TJZ<SP7MGD<VK7AX<ZL2BAU<ZL3VML
Sent: 030228/1058Z @:ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC #:60641 [Chch-NZ] FBB7.00i $:952-ZL3AI
From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
TAPR APRS Special Interest Group Digest for Wednesday, February 26, 2003.
1. OpenTAC -
2. RE: OpenTAC -
<LYR19806-122101-2003.02.26-00.24.51--ssbrockw#swbell.net@lists.tapr.org>
3. Re: Holy Grail of APRS Network Performance
4. Re: Holy Grail of APRS Network Performance
5. RE: Holy Grail of APRS Network Performance
6. Re: Holy Grail of APRS Network Performance
7. Prepared presentation ?
8. Re: Easy listening. Was: PCsat easy listening
9. Re: OpenTAC -
10. CYBIKO's via PCSAT...
11. Re: CYBIKO's via PCSAT...
12. findu.com
13. RE: OpenTAC -
<LYR19806-122101-2003.02.26-00.24.51- -ssbrockw#swbell.net@lists.tapr.org>
14. RE: OpenTAC - <LYR19806-122101-2003.02.26-00.24.51-
-ssbrockw#swbell.net@lists.tapr.org>
15. APRS and snow depth reporting?
16. Re: APRS and snow depth reporting?
17. Re: APRS and snow depth reporting?
18. Re: APRS and snow depth reporting?
19. Re: Holy Grail of APRS Network Performance
20. More APRS weather
21. Re: Holy Grail of APRS Network Performance
22. Re: Holy Grail of APRS Network Performance
23. Re: Holy Grail of APRS Network Performance
24. Another report element
25. Re: More APRS weather
26. Re: 144.39 channel loading
27. Re: 144.39 channel loading
28. RE: Holy Grail of APRS Network Performance
29. RE: Holy Grail of APRS Network Performance
30. Re: Holy Grail of APRS Network Performance
31. RE: Holy Grail of APRS Network Performance
32. Re: More APRS weather
33. RE: More APRS weather
34. SyntorX VHF
35. PCSAT BBS is OFF
36. TXD (Final answer?)
37. once upon a stolen car?
38. Re: once upon a stolen car?
39. RE: TXD (Final answer?)
40. Re: TXD (Final answer?)
41. Re: TXD (Final answer?)
42. Re: TXD (Final answer?)
43. Handling 100 3-min trackers
44. Re: findu.com
45. Re: More APRS weather
46. Re: once upon a stolen car?
47. Re: TXD (Final answer?)
48. [Fwd: Stolen Vehicle-RECOVERED using APRS]
49. Re: TXD (Final answer?)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: OpenTAC -
From: "Darryl Smith" <Darryl@radio-active.net.au>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 16:35:27 +1100
X-Message-Number: 1
G'Day
I am sorry for the cross-post, but sometimes this is needed. For those that
are not aware of it, [since they feel that they should get their APRS news
from the APRS SIG and not from SlashDot.Org], there is a group producing a
protocol called the OPENTRAC. Their WWW site is www.opentrac.org. Apart
from the email address scott@opentrac.org I have no idea who is involved
with this project.
I am going to email scott and find out more. However I am rather concerned
about the fact that the first thing I heard about this spec was on SlashDot
and not on APRSsig or APRSspec.
I am concerned that the unity we achieved by producing the working document
will be destroyed by producing another spec, no matter how good.
Darryl VK2TDS
---------
Darryl Smith, VK2TDS POBox 169 Ingleburn NSW 2565 Australia
Mobile Number 0412 929 634 [+61 4 12 929 634 International]
Darryl@radio-active.net.au | www.radio-active.net.au
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: OpenTAC -
<LYR19806-122101-2003.02.26-00.24.51--ssbrockw#swbell.net@lists.tapr.org>
From: Steve <ssbrockw@swbell.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 23:56:44 -0600
X-Message-Number: 2
I believe that Scott started to tell us about his new spec back on January
7th and the discussion ran for quite a while (through February 7th at least)
Nothing that we haven't been told about.
Steve
KA5YFC
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Holy Grail of APRS Network Performance
From: "Ev Tupis (W2EV)" <w2ev@arrl.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 07:11:39 -0500
X-Message-Number: 3
>How about this, which should be backwards compatible and take fewer
>characters: We add "xx]" onto the end of PHG. The PHG still reads
>correctly and yet future software can pull out the xx beacon rate and use
>it in PROBE analysis... All you have to parse for is the "]" in the fixed
>position after the "PHG".
PHG is missing several components that are needed for truly useful path
analysis. It is fine for "ballpark estimates", don't get me wrong. It has
served its purposes.
If there is any entertaining of change actually taking place, though... it
would be good to understand all of the components that could be included in
this parameter and include them, too.
Raw path analysis requires the following components be known about the
TXing station:
TX Interval
RF Frequency of Operation
Modulation Scheme (AX.25, PSK31, etc.) and bandwidth
Power Output at the antenna
- RF output minus feeder loss
Antenna Gain (or negative gain in the case of shortened element devices such
as "rubber ducks" and Hamstick's)
Antenna Center - Above Average Terrain
Antenna Center - Above Sea Level
It also requires much to be known about the RX side:
Receiver Noise Figure
Receiver Passband
Antenna Gain (or negative gain in the case of shortened element devices such
as "rubber ducks" and Hamstick's)
Antenna Center - Above Average Terrain
Antenna Center - Above Sea Level
DSP factors (many to note, too many to mention here)
Interestingly, these are issues that the BEACONet community has attempted
to get the APRS community interested in for years...and the primary reason
why we finally struck out on our own.
Regards,
Ev Tupis, W2EV
--
What no longer befuddles the ARRL's contest desk?
http://www.BEACONet.org or join the on-line community by
sending a blank eMail to: BEACONet-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Holy Grail of APRS Network Performance
From: "Ev Tupis (W2EV)" <w2ev@arrl.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 07:15:38 -0500
X-Message-Number: 4
After having mentioned just how BEACONet.25 already includes such a robust
version of APRS's "PHG" system... I thought that you'd be interested to know
something that we now have data to support: PSK31 and 1200 Baud AX.25 on
10-meters, during the sunspot peak, performed equally well... with no
propagation advantage either way.
In a nutshell, each BEACONet transmission includes a TX-interval value,
identifying how often a station TX's. We have a system of tracking
everyone's "CATCHes". We also know all the other stuff about stations (RF
out, antenna type, etc.).
We've been able to chart Network Performance for over a full year now.
fwiw.
Ev, W2EV
--
What's cool in Amateur Radio?
http://www.BEACONet.org or join the on-line community by
sending a blank eMail to: BEACONet-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: Holy Grail of APRS Network Performance
From: "Ev Tupis (W2EV)" <w2ev@arrl.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 07:24:12 -0500
X-Message-Number: 5
Bob Bruninga wrote:
>>this seems similar to something we did for BEACONet a while ago. The
>>success rates based on propagation, not so much interference. BEACONet
>>has an inherit mechanism to indicate the number of transmissions per
>>hour (the to-call SSID is used for this).
>
>Yes, a great idea, but unfortunately that use of SSID is one of the two
>main incompatibilities between APRS and Beaconnet. Because in APRS, the
>SSID is used for digipeating. SO we have to add it elsewhere...
There is no incompatibility because of the use of SSID for TX interval.
The TX interval SSID is the one attached to CALLSIGN. WB4APR-10 = 10 TX's
per hour.
You are confusing the antenna pointing vector parameter...which uses ToCall
SSID like a clock face (-3 = antenna pointing east). In fact, since
BEACONet uses the ToCall differently, it appears as an APRS ALTNET, ignored
by APRS-only clients, therefore maintaining compatibility there, too.
The incompatibility is that BEACONet.25 uses a different set of digipeating
aliases.
As explained before, this feature is designed, as BEACONet doesn't want
APRS packets on their network for the very reason that APRS lacks a
meaningful (to the BEACONet project) payload and would simply load down the
frequency.
Sometimes, "incompatibility" isn't such a bad thing. :o) It's allowed
BEACONet to create a protocol that already accomplishes something that has
now been put on the "let's work on it" page for APRS.
Regards,
Ev, W2EV
--
What's cool in Amateur Radio?
http://www.BEACONet.org or join the on-line community by
sending a blank eMail to: BEACONet-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Holy Grail of APRS Network Performance
From: "Ev Tupis (W2EV)" <w2ev@arrl.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 07:31:18 -0500
X-Message-Number: 6
Bob Bruninga wrote:
>I think you are thinking that each station reports its own success. This
>is good information but is only good at one location and cannot be used
>for any other analysis.
>
>Thus it is always better to put the needed raw data in the transmitted
>packet (how often the packet is transmitted) and let the analysis be done
>on the other end...)
It depends on where the station reports its' own success. In BEACONet, we
use an "end of the day" emailer to send all of the CATCHes-of-the-day to a
common list, called CATCHes@yahoogroups. It can be mined for very useful
information. One such CATCH report is shown below.
fwiw,
Ev, W2EV
--
What's cool in Amateur Radio?
http://www.BEACONet.org or join the on-line community by
sending a blank eMail to: BEACONet-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Notice, such reports also tell you how long a particular station operated,
"CATCHing" other signals". See legend below...
W3GYK BeacoNet^31 - 2/13/03 23:59:55 Z
Call Grid Azm Dist First 000000000011111111112222 Last Config
SQ (KM) Heard 012345678901234567890123 Heard Code
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
W3GYK-6 EM85VF 0 0 00:08 566655 5665666566 23:55 HY0F02-15
W3NRG-8 DM12JQ 275 3230 00:01 22 3321523113 23:53 HY0E03
KF6XA-8 DM13JO 277 3206 00:00 72 251312231 22:23 HY0EB2-15
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
CATCHes per hour as heard
at W3GYK.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Read previous mail | Read next mail
| |
