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To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: Re: APRS TT
From: "Jason Rausch" <ke4nyv@hamhud.net>
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 12:10:29
X-Message-Number: 37
>I also believe that APRS TT did not take off because no one offered any
>kits to build decoders/encoders. (At least none that I have ever seen.)
There was two problems:
One, Bob's downloadable version had a major bug. It would not let you
enter in your callsign, it forced you to use his and this was never fixed,
to my knowledge. I was amazed by APRStt when i saw it for the first time
at Dayton 3 years ago. If Bob fixes that bug, I will be right on the band
wagon to play along. I have extra TNC's now to do things like that.
Second, there was no kits persay. But Wes (Real Dumb Boy) layed out a
simple all-in-one board that contained the DTMF decode chip as well as a 8
(?) bit DAC chip to do the voice alerts. The board had a DB-25 connector
to make it very easy to interface to the computer. All you needed was a
power source. I leeched +5VDC from the PS/2 mouse port to power mine. If
you wanted to use an external power source, just add a 7805 to the already
layed in spot on the board for it.
Wes only had 3 or 4 of these made up and I was lucky to get one.
Go to my page: http://www.ke4nyv.com/aprs.net and near the bottom you will
see my board built up and I even made up a board layout diagram and parts
list. I bet Wes still has the artwork for the layout somehwere.
The callsign conversion is a snap also with my windows program I wrote to
do a full conversion or hashed version. Go to
http://www.ke4nyv.com/software.htm and you can find it there. Its a simple
program I wrote in VB5.
I'm still game to play if Bob fixes the program.
Jason KE4NYV
www.ke4nyv.com
RPC Electronics
www.ke4nyv.com/rpc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: D'Oh!
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@opentrac.org>
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 10:14:16 -0700
X-Message-Number: 38
Thank you for registering for the
2003 ARRL and TAPR
Digital Communications Conference
Crud. I really DID want to go to the 2003 DCC, but I've already bought
tickets for Des Moines. In 2004.
=]
Scott
N1VG
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: Thoughts on a proposed replacement for D700
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 13:17:00 -0400
X-Message-Number: 39
>>>Demetre Valaris 6/9/04 5:25:02 AM >>>
>I have been watching this discussion with interest ,
>but can you please tell me, how do you exactly use
>your Kenwood D700 when you drive?
Thanks Demetre!
What the OPENtrack programmers dont realize is that Kenwood users are not
just trackers for everyone else to watch move, THEY are APRS operators
using the D7 and D700 as their window on the APRS world. It lets them SEE
what is going on around them on APRS. They want to see and decode
everything too. But if packets are OPENTrack packets (to do just the same
thing a different way), then the D700 user is being denied access to this
APRS channel information and BLINDED by every OPENtrack packet.
>Do you connect [your D700] to a PC and watch the PC...?
Nope, I took out my permanent APRS laptop as soon as I got the Kenwood. Ii
does everything I need... And mounted it like you did by the way::
>Now I have the D700 right infront of me at the
>dashboard above the speed-o-meter etc and I never
>take my eyes off the road.
>I only look at the screen when I hear a message
>coming or a packet from the Voice Alert setup, or...
>... Also with the nice DTMF lighted microphone, I can
>type short (APRS) SMS messages very easily.
Also, in my area where we have APRSdata and APRStraffic running, my kenwood
also flashes on the front panel these TINY-WEB-PAGES of information:
1) Name, angle, distnace and freqeuency of any HAM satellite in view NOW.
Make it fun to operate satellite mobile with NO APRIORI knowledge. Just
use the data on the front panel to QSY and work it
2) Automatic Location of any traffic slowdowns in the area showing the
speed of traffic, the distance and direction from me and who's D7 or
D700 automaticlaly repoted it.
>Same goes with my D7's... I take with me especially
>when I walk or cycle on the mountain...
>I like the simplicity of it when I want to send
>messages since it is very simple to operate, nearly as
>simple as a mobile phone.
>
>Been able to do APRS with very simple gear is the
>biggest advantage to me... And really if it wasn't for
>the Kenwood radios and Bob's persistance we wouldn't
>have the global APRS network we have today.
True, we would only have TRACKERS, and then APRS/Internet couch-potatos
just soaking it up. But no access to APRS in the field unless you bring
along the PC and all the sphegetti wiring, which is unsafe at any speed
(Have you seen the picture of my VAN fire due to rats nest of GPS/TNC and
LAPTOP wires? hi hi... (actually it was a D700, but the wiring was th
elaptop legacy from before the kenwood came out...]
>when I am at home I hear Xastir will be able to decode
>these OPENtrack packets, but is this the real purpose of
>APRS? Operating from home? I think it is more
>important to operate APRS when portable or mobile!!!
>If I am not mistaken this is the main purpose of APRS.
>Everything else revolves around the moving stations
>really because these are the ones that we all want to
>track.
And that is the problem of operating DUAL PROTOCOLS on the APRS channel,
since it will DENY all existing users (VIEWING THE DATA IN THEIR CARS) of
access to what they thought was the APRS channel.
>... I am a user too and I think we should try to
>accomodate the needs of portable/mobile APRS
>operators first and then everything else. Because
>APRS was made for them in the first place.
>If all the software writers followed the APRS specs we
>would not need another protocol, we could improve APRS
>instead.
Very well said Demetrie!
Thanks
Bob
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: D700 - Yes mine has FLASH and In-Circuit Programming.
From: Danny <danny@messano.net>
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 13:25:36 -0400
X-Message-Number: 40
RB> 1) Hams are too cheap (as a group)
RB> 2) Will BITCH no matter what you do
RB> 3) Some Hams insit on perfection or shouda/coulda/woulda
RB> 4) All it takes is one constant complainer like Jeff King
RB> (who doesnt even own one, but who lambasts the
RB> (1994 product endlessly for not having user FLASH]
RB> (which wasnt mainstream until later)
RB> 5) ANd with the internet, one loud complainer
RB> can sour the whole pot.
I don't think it's fair to single out individuals and make this personal.
There are many that have problems with the system, but instead of
addressing the issues, the attacks become personal and unrelated.
What ever happened to the right of the consumer, Bob? When the Yaesu's,
Kenwoods, Icoms, and Alincos of the world give us what we want, we buy it.
If it sucks, we complain. It's our money and are entitled to do what we
want with it. If we invest in your product and get let down, we have a
right to bitch. Last time I checked, the Kenwoods cost a bit more than the
average HT or Mobile. If I were to spend that kind of money and didn't get
what I should I have, I would be screaming.
RB> The D7(g) model upgrade was a BIG improvement. It
RB> brougth the D7 up to APRS SPEC compliance
RB> (The first D7 was finished in 1998, 2 years before
RB> [ we even had an APRS SPEC). Yet only 10%
RB> ever upgraded. Apparently even those users are HAPPY!
No, those users are constantly being fed "APRS is good" "APRS does not need
improvements" "You will APRS and not complain". So they don't.
If this sig is any reflection, Bob, anyone that complains about the APRS
system is a "complainer" "whiner" "crackpot" or "quack". Think about all
the namecalling you do here.
RB> Complain all you want. But until you can show a
RB> business model of how a company that can only sell
RB> say 5000 APRS radios to a very tiny niche market
RB> where it costs $60 to upgrade and only 10% of them
RB> would, dont hold your breath.
Maybe if I didnt have to send my radio off to the company to be upgraded,
it wouldnt be an issue?
I upgrade my software all the time. Any hardware I have that can be flash
upgraded, I upgrade. I only send radios back to the factory if they are
not working, because I can't be without the use of the radio.
Everything isnt black and white.
RB> Save your breath. Find ways to USE WHAT WE HAVE
RB> in HAM radio to serve our Ham radio mission and not
RB> job-security for programmers... I sure wish those programmers
RB> would use their energy to send to me, in my car, onto
RB> the front panel of my radio (Kenwood) usable real time
RB> information (APRS) on thinkgs like Traffic speed, wrecks
RB> and backups. Where the Fire and Emergency vehicles
RB> are, etc...
I can't see those on my DOS packet terminal program. You obsoleted it with
APRS. I could upgrade to APRS software, but I am too cheap, and would
rather bitch.
Danny
KE4RAP
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: APRS Hardware
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 13:31:19 -0400
X-Message-Number: 41
>>>"deni" <deni@dwatt.com> 6/8/04 9:39:04 PM >>>
>I have been told this is the place to get recommendations
>for APRS hardware. I want something that I can put
>into my vehicle and then not have to bother with it
>anymore.
It depends. If you want to just transmit your position, there are many
possibilities. But these days, most people also want a simple one box that
does all of that PLUS it will let you see all of this on the front panel of
the radio with NO EXTERNAL wiring other than plugging in the GPS:
1) Call, distance, direction, and ICON of ALL other stations
around you (it shows a list of the last 40, 5 at a time)
2) Lets you see their course and speed and brag status
3) Includes 3 bands SIMULTANEOUSLY
a) APRS (144.39)
b) dual band on VHF or HF AT THE SAME TIME
c) The single APRS mobile SIMPLEX voice call channel
4) Alerts you to, and shows you Any messages or bulletins to you
5) Lets you send APRS message and EMAIL from the touch tone pad
6) And in addition, some areas have city-wide APRS stations that send to
your radio alerts about traffic problems and slow downs, and also
information on any AMSATS that are immediately in view includeing their
frequency and direction and distance so you simply QSY to work the
space station or new AMSAT ECHO satelite simply while commuting....
etc..
So if you just want a tracking device so that otehrs can see you but you
are blind to everyone else even if the are right next to you, then there
are many options.
But if you want a do-it-all-RADIO that lets YOU see all of APRS around you,
then there is ONLY ONE ANSWER. A Kenwood TH-D7 HT or the D700 mobile.
Good luck.
Bob, WB4APR
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: APRS Protocol - A Modest Proposal
From: Drew Baxter <droobie@maine.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 13:41:35 -0400
X-Message-Number: 42
Actually Pete,
I'd just put Opentrac on another frequency and make APRS <->Opentrac
bridges that convert between formats and freqs. That way we'd still have
APRS compatible traffic on the .39. People running Opentrac on the .39
isn't REALLY the issue. I wouldn't even know they're there, which has been
proven. It's probably not a good idea to do it, but.
I'm surprised noone's suggested this. Throw it on another freq is
fine. Make bridges while Opentrac builds an infrastructure of its
own. After all, if the bridges are smart about it, there would be ways to
reduce the amount of channel loading on the APRS network generated by
people using Opentrac instead of doing APRS on the .39.
I think this would be a win-win solution. But I'll let people shoot it
full of holes and see what happens.
---Droo, K1XVM
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: Thoughts on a proposed replacement for D700
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 13:47:09 -0400
X-Message-Number: 43
>>>"DG2JW" <dg2jw@privateasylum.com> 6/8/04 9:48:17 AM >>>
>I am by no means an APRS guru. Im a hacker...
>but the bottom line is... you might consider that the
>users have been telling the APRS world what we want
>for some time with no results.
Please tell me what they are. YES! ALl kinds of mumbo-jumbo from
programmers of all the slick things they would like to ADD if it was
"easier" to do, but I think I can say that I have tried to respond to ALL
end-user-requests that have identified, REAL, USEFUL items for the END
USER. Please, if I was unresponsive to any USER need Please SHOW ME and I
will correct it.
If find no better joy than figuring out ways to help the END user find ways
to do what he needs and what he wants WITHIN the APRS protocol.
But I am NOT going to waste time on coulda/shoulda/woulda whinning from
programmers.... that will DENY EXISTING USERS continuity of operations on
APRS!
Again, WhAT ARE THESE NEEDS THAT YOU INSIST we have not been responseive to?
>My kenwoods would be more valuble to me if they
>were more flexible with user upgradeble firmware,
>adding the possibility of expanding its usefulness and
>useability in the light of future developments.
Are you in marketing or sales? Now that paragraph is JUST LIKE ALL WE EVER
HEAR!
PLEASE tell me WHAT YOU the end user needs that you cannot get with the
current protocol, and we will work hard to figure out a way to do it that
wont DENY all existing users
But just saying you want it to be easier to do for programmers (at the
expense of existing users) just WONT CUT IT in my opinion...
Julian, nothing personal. THis is just my ongoing battle betweem
programmer hype and keeping the EXISTING SYSTEM and USERS working while
adding what they need and ask for...
I'm getting tired of programmer and marketing and coulda/shoulda/wouilda
propoganda. there is SO MUCH useful real-time LOCAL information of
immediate BENEFIT to the end user in his CAR with the D7 and D700 that we
could deliver if these programmers would just focus on delivering data to
the end user, and not to just re-inventing protocol ideas to deliver more
junk to the couch-potato in his shack.
Bob
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: D700 - Yes mine has FLASH and In-Circuit Programming.
From: Drew Baxter <droobie@maine.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 13:51:40 -0400
X-Message-Number: 44
At 12:50 PM 6/9/2004, you wrote:
>Drew,
>
>Fantastic work!
>It sounds like you are adding greatly to Hams knowledge
>of the D700. Now let me toss this out:
>1) I assume the D700 DISPLAY head is completely
>programmable. Thus, it is only a display and the radio
>tells it what to do.
There's a chip inside the D700 head. I haven't really looked to see what
it is though. I cracked it open a few months back in hopes to change it to
blue, because the V7A definitely has a hotter looking display. I really
don't feel like replacing 30+ LEDs though.. Not at the moment :)
>2) Reason I say this is because the SAME control head
>can work for the TS-2000 and do totally different things
>and the TS-2000 was developed after the D700.
>
>And it is just a single serial port between the control head
>and the radio. Thus, hacking it should be TRIVIAL.
>Just tap the serial data line to the control head (1 of 4 wires)
>and WATCH what happens.
I'll have to try this when I get back if I get a second. I'm headed down
to Baltimore MD on Friday through Sunday to catch a baseball game. Flying
down there from Maine. I guess there's worse ways to blow 100$, it should
be a good time.
But yeah, if there's an easy way to manipulate the display, then perhaps
there will be a way to black-box it and provide some expendability to the
hardware.
I do appreciate the fact that Kenwood also had the perseverance to make the
TNC a removable module attached by a flat cable. I'm not sure how many
other small profile TNCs are out there, but it appears that it could be the
same wiring as the Alinco plug (except the Alinco uses a multi-wire
connection instead of a flat cable). The Alinco (of course) uses a Tasco
TNC too, but maybe there's other things out there that could be used.
I haven't run into a problem with the Tasco yet. But I'm not using KISS
mode on the Alinco 135TP that runs K1XVM I-gate because it'd either freeze
up or not work if memory serves.
I will definitely have to look into this though. I think it's an RJ9 on
the display head, so that's only 4 wires to figure out what they do.
--Droo, K1XVM
>Turn a knob (look at the response)
>Push a button (look at the respons)
>Watch a packet (look at the response)
>
>Then having done that enough, build up a table
>of the protocol and then we should be able
>to send anything to the front panel.
>
>Just what HAMS like to do.
>So much fun, so little time....
>
>But great work!
>
>Bob
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: APRS Protocol - A Modest Proposal
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@opentrac.org>
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 10:53:50 -0700
X-Message-Number: 45
>I'm surprised noone's suggested this. Throw it on another freq is
>fine. Make bridges while Opentrac builds an infrastructure of its
>own. After all, if the bridges are smart about it, there would be ways to
>reduce the amount of channel loading on the APRS network generated by
>people using Opentrac instead of doing APRS on the .39.
It's been mentioned, but my main objection is still that all that equipment
and spectrum could (for now, anyway) be better put to use on APRS. Add an
extra input frequency and start migrating weather stations and such off of
144.39. This would provide a real, tangible benefit to APRS, far more than
eliminating a few experimental packets.
Scott
N1VG
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Kenwood APRS radio...
From: Drew Baxter <droobie@maine.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 13:56:47 -0400
X-Message-Number: 46
At 01:06 PM 6/9/2004, Danny wrote:
>I have purchased a few radios since the kenwoods came out and have steered
>clear of them. I try to never buy 1.0 of anything, hardware or
>software. The kenwoods are a perfect example of a "work in progress" as
>even the G models have flaws that remain.
>
>Of course, the biggest flaw of all is that the version of the APRS
>protocol in these radios is set in stone. I don't need to go into this
>again. It's a fact, and there is no way around it.
I agree with this. At the very least the errata material should be
included into the original SPEC and the SPEC version number should be
evolved. [That's what I meant in my E-Mail, Bob. I just didn't know how
to put it into words at the time.]
Everything should be documented up to this point, call it 1.2 or something.
--Droo, K1XVM
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: APRS Protocol - A Modest Proposal
From: "AE5PL Lists" <HamLists@ametx.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 12:57:26 -0500
X-Message-Number: 47
Curt did something similar, it is my understanding, with Xastir some
time back to gate the OpenTrac packets onto APRS-IS in an APRS format.
There are a number of technicalities that would need to be worked out
regarding how the conversions are done and what restrictions would have
to be programmatically in place, but it is not a completely unreasonable
idea by any means.
That said, I would hate to see something hacked together that might
achieve one goal but exclude some others. By the same token, I would
hate to see such a gateway (prefer this term over bridge as a bridge in
today's vernacular implies the packet stays the same) cause disruptions
on either network. But again, those are technicalities that would need
to be carefully gone over both from technical and ramification
standpoints.
73,
Pete Loveall AE5PL
mailto:pete@ae5pl.net
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Drew Baxter
>
>I'd just put Opentrac on another frequency and make APRS
><->Opentrac bridges that convert between formats and freqs.
>That way we'd still have APRS compatible traffic on the .39.
>People running Opentrac on the .39 isn't REALLY the issue. I
>wouldn't even know they're there, which has been proven.
>It's probably not a good idea to do it, but.
>
>I'm surprised noone's suggested this. Throw it on another
>freq is fine. Make bridges while Opentrac builds an
>infrastructure of its own. After all, if the bridges are
>smart about it, there would be ways to reduce the amount of
>channel loading on the APRS network generated by people using
>Opentrac instead of doing APRS on the .39.
>
>I think this would be a win-win solution. But I'll let
>people shoot it full of holes and see what happens.
>
>---Droo, K1XVM
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: APRS user beware part 2
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 14:01:21 -0400
X-Message-Number: 48
>>>"Eric H. Christensen" <kf4otn@earthlink.net> 6/8/04 1:51:26 PM >>>
>>>At a beach front hotel. I spent most of my time
>>>explaining the VAN's really were not driving on the
>>>beach when they in fact where waiting by lobby...
>>Sounds to me like you didnt check your map datums first.
>Bob, do you know what precision level my map
>can handle??? ... What if I'm not using it to plot on
>a map... I'm using it with robotics... No maps, all math....
Well, APRS can only go to about the nearest foot. That sounds like a quite
special application that would need a lot more than APRS... and you wouldnt
be smart to operate such a critical mission on the APRS channel anyway...
de WB4APR, Bob
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Venus transit?
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 14:03:26 -0400
X-Message-Number: 49
Thanks. I forgot all about APRS! never had any takers anyways; I was
trying to get interest in an AMSAT SSB net to share the joy of the Venus
Transit. (while keeping up with all the carping on this SIG).
>>>Roger Grady <k9opo@comteck.com> 6/8/04 5:50:49 PM >>>
At 08:57 AM 6/8/04, Richard Amirault wrote:
>OK, anyone do any APRS for the Venus transit?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: Thoughts on a proposed replacement for D700
From: Drew Baxter <droobie@maine.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 14:09:53 -0400
X-Message-Number: 50
At 01:17 PM 6/9/2004, Robert Bruninga wrote:
>>Do you connect [your D700] to a PC and watch the PC...?
>
>Nope, I took out my permanent APRS laptop as soon
>as I got the Kenwood. Ii does everything I need...
>And mounted it like you did by the way::
http://www.1-x.net/am/rdfview.jpg
http://www.1-x.net/am/gpsrview.jpg
The laptop was there for fox-hunting, it usually isn't. I bought the D700
(like you) to save space in the vehicle. I would've sooner bought a V7A if
I wasn't going to use the D700 as it was intended. The D700 was a generous
gift from my grandfather (WA1JTE) and the first radio I owned. Actually,
APRS is why I took the test.
Everything is within my field of view, so this definitely works out
great. If the D700 screen were any bigger, I think I would've been in the
way. It does get looks from local police and whatnot though.
>Also, in my area where we have APRSdata and APRStraffic
>running, my kenwood also flashes on the front panel
>these TINY-WEB-PAGES of information:
>1) Name, angle, distnace and freqeuency of any HAM
> satellite in view NOW. Make it fun to operate
> satellite mobile with NO APRIORI knowledge. Just
> use the data on the front panel to QSY and work it
>2) Automatic Location of any traffic slowdowns in the area
> showing the speed of traffic, the distance and direction
> from me and who's D7 or D700 automaticlaly repoted it.
I'd like to see extensions like this made for other platforms. My Sparc64
I-gate runs Xastir and it'd be rather cool if there were a way to send
satellite position data up to the network. Someone else uses APRSDOS to do
it in the area, but a lot of the time something happens to his computer or
it's just not transmitting.
--Droo, K1XVM
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: APRS Protocol - A Modest Proposal
From: "AE5PL Lists" <HamLists@ametx.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 13:19:45 -0500
X-Message-Number: 51
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Scott Miller
>
>put to use on APRS. Add an extra input frequency and start
>migrating weather stations and such off of 144.39. This
I hope that never happens! As a weather spotter for ARES, I appreciate
having quick access to various area weather station info in my mobile. I
hope we never get to the point of saying "this type of station is ok on the
APRS frequency but this other kind isn't". That would, IMO, defeat one of
the major benefits of APRS. Don't misunderstand, I am talking about one
type of APRS station vs. another, not one protocol vs. another.
In years past, we have separated different packet network types onto
different frequencies to help preserve the integrity of the various
protocols and uses. Hence, IP was on one frequency, DX clusters on
another, NetRom and ROSE on another, etc. Among other things, this kept
the inevitable misconfigured TNC or application from messing up the entire
packet network. It also allowed for the various protocol designers to
optimize timing and protocol specific parameters without fear of causing
undo interference to the other protocols.
If your idea for OpenTrac is to have separate frequencies for different
station types, have at it. That is why it is your protocol, you can do
what you want with it. However, I hope we do not as a group try to defeat
one of the key benefits IMO of APRS: all area stations are directly seen on
a single frequency.
73,
Pete Loveall AE5PL
mailto:pete@ae5pl.net
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: APRS Protocol - A Modest Proposal
From: "Curt, WE7U" <archer@eskimo.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 11:21:41 -0700 (PDT)
X-Message-Number: 52
On Wed, 9 Jun 2004, AE5PL Lists wrote:
>Curt did something similar, it is my understanding, with Xastir some
>time back to gate the OpenTrac packets onto APRS-IS in an APRS format.
>There are a number of technicalities that would need to be worked out
>regarding how the conversions are done and what restrictions would have
>to be programmatically in place, but it is not a completely unreasonable
>idea by any means.
I did. I also disabled that feature a month or two back. We didn't want
to get into the same sort of problems that were found with Mic-E expansion,
with everyone doing something a little bit different, plus some
implementations messing up the packets royally.
There's a lot to consider to do it properly/consistently.
--
Curt, WE7U http://www.eskimo.com/~archer
"Lotto: A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown
"Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U
"The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: APRS TT
From: wes@johnston.net
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 14:23:36 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 53
Corrected link: http://www.ke4nyv.com/aprs
Jason, you need just ONE more thing on that shelf. Love all the old
laptops... true amateur fashion!
Wes
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Subject: Re: Tetroon collateral damage report, revision1
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 14:42:43 -0400
X-Message-Number: 54
>>>"Gregg G. Wonderly" <gregg@skymaster.cytetech.com> 6/8/04 5:43:24 PM
>>>
>[there are] 5 different position [formats]... Bob, seems
>to agree that... a new... more accurate format would be
>a great candidate for a new user defined packet ..
>This would then add a 6th choice to the mix...
Unfortunately that is missleading. Here is where I stand:
1) I do NOT want any NEW formats for position that cannot be decoded by
existing users.
2) APRS has 1 foot resolution already. But the "compressed" format that
provides it is broken in many applications.
3) In response to the USER request for more precision to 1 foot for SAR
applications, (which started all this OPENtrack hype), we came up with an
addition to APRS that would provide these things:
1) 100% backwards compatiblity to ALL users
2) Human readable precision to 6 feet or so
3) Precision to 7" if needed
4) Included the DATUM in the same packet
5) Would still be seen on Kenwoods
4) In addition, I now propose that the APRS-WG REMOVE the problematic
compressed protocol form the APRS spec to help simplify the protocol
for future programmers.
Yet, we still just keep getting all this SAME carping.... They identified a
need (1 foot resolutioin), we came up with a solution that was pretty darn
good, and fully backwards compatible to all users AND we simplified the
spec in the process...
Yet, the complainers, that don't even have a kenwood, that dont use APRS in
the field anyway (or they would have one), and who just like to argue to
hear themselves argue just keep on complaining...
Bob
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