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ZL3AI > APRDIG 13.06.04 09:09l 816 Lines 29315 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: RE: APRS extensibility and OPENtrack
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@opentrac.org>
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 08:12:37 -0700
X-Message-Number: 43
>Ah, now exactly how does every one of the 20,000
>APRS users do that? The only way I know of that
Why would they need to? The vast majority don't have a problem anyway. We
had OpenTRAC traffic heard by how many people last week? A few hundred? A
thousand? And just one of those people would have benefitted from
reconfiguring their TNC.
Scott
N1VG
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: BINARY OPENtrack on APRS
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@opentrac.org>
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 08:14:34 -0700
X-Message-Number: 44
>Im not talking about GARBAGE positions, I'm
>talling about binary data that CAN perfectlyl match
>an APRS format and be totally witihin all context
>checkers and still not even be APRS though it
>will produce a perfectly VALID but WRONG
>interpretation...
And I've shown why that won't happen. If you think you can create such a
packet, go right ahead and show me how.
Scott
N1VG
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: New APRS Digi-Object-Maintenance format
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@opentrac.org>
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 08:30:03 -0700
X-Message-Number: 45
>Your whole point of having the digi originate the object
>for its users was to avoid two channel slots for every
>object transmission (the input and digipeted copy) and
Because I think it's important for the user to have a choice. I seem to
recall you've spoken out in the past on implementing path limits in the
digipeaters, because we're supposed to assume the users know what they're
doing. If they transmit with a single WIDE, then there's no difference. If
they transmit WIDE2-2, and request a cache, they're still saving the initial
transmission, and using no more remote bandwidth than they would have
anyway.
>We have got to stop flooding the network with
>useless objects beyond their range of value...
Agreed. But APRS has traditionally left it up to the user to decide what
the range of value is.
Scott
N1VG
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: New APRS Digi-Object-Maintenance format
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@opentrac.org>
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 08:32:14 -0700
X-Message-Number: 46
In my proposal at least, you could just set the first digi hop to the digi
you want. Though I suppose that should be explicitly stated - the digi
should only perform caching if the packet is heard direct (no digis used),
and if the path matches the digi's call or aliases.
Scott
N1VG
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christensen, Eric" <CHRISTENSENE@MAIL.ECU.EDU>
>Would it be possible to "address" an object to a particular digi? That way
>you could have full control over which digi is sending them out and thus
>could specify two different digis for distribution? I feel some sort of
>control would need to be put on these object's path, though. I can point
>out more than a handful of improper paths in my own area that are spamming
>the network. I would really hate to see more traffic from these objects
>than necessary from uneducated (or non-caring "I JUST WANT TO BE SEEN")
>stations.
>
>73s,
>Eric KF4OTN
>kf4otn@amsat.org
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: APRS extensibility and OPENtrack
From: Earl Needham <needhame1@plateautel.net>
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 09:37:55 -0700
X-Message-Number: 47
At 08:12 AM 6/7/2004, Scott Miller wrote:
>>Ah, now exactly how does every one of the 20,000
>>APRS users do that? The only way I know of that
>
>Why would they need to? The vast majority don't have a problem anyway. We
>had OpenTRAC traffic heard by how many people last week? A few hundred? A
>thousand? And just one of those people would have benefitted from
>reconfiguring their TNC.
Shucks, I think I'll try SSTV on 144.39. After all, the TNC's should
ignore it.
Earl
Earl Needham, KD5XB, Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk
SETI@Home: 11589WU/7.52yrs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: APRS user beware part 2
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@opentrac.org>
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 08:51:52 -0700
X-Message-Number: 48
>What do you mean by "works"?
>My TH-D7 shows me everything that is going on
>around me on the APRS channel. If half the users
>are using OPENtrack formats, then I can no longer
>use the radio for this purpose and it ceases to "work"
>for me. ANd to date, there is NO ALTERNATIVE
>all-in-one APRS device...
If half the users are using OpenTRAC, then I'm afraid your TH-D7 has been
obsolete for a few years already, Bob. =] I think the ratio stands at
something like 1:1000 right now. And that's number of users - number of
packets is probably more like 1:100000.
Scott
N1VG
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: BINARY OPENtrack on APRS
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@opentrac.org>
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 08:59:57 -0700
X-Message-Number: 49
>Assume someone sent TCP/IP across the APRS lan (which I'm sure
>happens every so often), or some other protocol with a different PID
>than APRS uses. If the APRS software doesn't properly handle it, is
>it the fault of the other protocol? The TNC? The APRS software?
I can vouch for this scenario. Did it myself, once. I installed Samba on
my IGate machine to do some Windows file-sharing. Didn't realize that it
found and bound to my AX.25 interface as well, and started doing netbios
name announcements on 144.39. I caught that the same day, mostly because at
the time my TV tended to fuzz a bit whenever the IGate keyed up, and it was
keying up A LOT.
Getting non-APRS traffic on 144.39 by accident can and does happen.
Ignoring that fact is just asking for trouble.
Scott
N1VG
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: OPENtrak incompatibilites not needed.
From: "KC2MMi" <kc2mmi@verizon.net>
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 12:15:04 -0400
X-Message-Number: 50
<< 2) We even added a fully backwards compatible resolution
to one foot to APRS ...That can even be seen
on the Kenwoods! >>
Bob? What mode is this? If you're referring to compressed posits, I've got a
Kenwood here that appears incapable of using that information. I'd dearly
love to know how APRS and my Kenwood can work to deliver the 3-meter
accuracy of my WAAS-enabled GPS.
What am I missing here?
Or, is it just that some Kenwoods are more equal [sic] than other Kenwoods?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Too many personalities
From: "KC2MMi" <kc2mmi@verizon.net>
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 12:25:09 -0400
X-Message-Number: 51
<<This is the real problem... the double edged sword... Kenwood bought into
APRS and sells a very popular radio (and I really love mine). But at the
same time, they did not release their source code nor provide a dev kit, so
we are stuck. APRS will and cannot evolve until the last of these radios
quit working or Kenwood releases a new firmware. >>
Wes, may I suggest it is well past time that the ham community put some
brains together and obsoleted the Kenwoods for once and all?
A hamhud is nice, I probably don't appreciate them. To my way of thinking,
Palm-type PDA's have become dirt cheap ($40?! for a IIIxe) and a lot of
folks already own them. They're also a bit more versatile than a
purpose-built device.
So my suggestion is....Maybe it is time to develop an SMD version of a full
TNC, or look for ways to run the equivalent of AGWPE's "virtual TNC" in a
Pal-type device.
Take Kenwood out of the loop, develop a good alternate solution for a tiny
TNC that either feeds a Palm, or runs in it. Then we're all free from
vendors who refuse to follow the APRS spec.
Sadly, the details would be beyond my skills, but I'm putting the idea out
there!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: OPENtrak incompatibilites not needed.
From: "J. Lance Cotton" <joe@lightningflash.net>
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 11:42:11 -0500
X-Message-Number: 52
KC2MMi wrote:
><< 2) We even added a fully backwards compatible resolution
> to one foot to APRS ...That can even be seen
> on the Kenwoods! >>
>
>Bob? What mode is this? If you're referring to compressed posits, I've got a
>Kenwood here that appears incapable of using that information. I'd dearly
>love to know how APRS and my Kenwood can work to deliver the 3-meter
>accuracy of my WAAS-enabled GPS.
>
>What am I missing here?
Bob's talking about the 3-letter comment string that specifies the datum
plus an extra piece of data extending the "normal" posit numbers a little
more past the decimal.
The kenwoods don't understand it. It's up to the USERS of the kenwoods to
look at it and understand it. Unless APRSdos looks for this special string,
then no APRS client I know of automatically uses this new extension. It's
totally up to the user to interpret the extra digits.
--
J. Lance Cotton, KJ5O
http://map.findu.com/kj5o-14
joe@lightningflash.net
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: The NEXT Greatest thing to APRS!
From: Sean Jewett <sean@rimboy.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 11:35:07 -0500 (CDT)
X-Message-Number: 53
On Mon, 7 Jun 2004, Robert Bruninga wrote:
>Wow, you missed the whole point! Your CALLSIGN is your
>APRSTouchtone ID. Just type your call on any
>TT pad and that is all there is to it.. WB4APR is 924277
>K4HG is 5444. Since this only has to be unique within
>DIRECT range of any given APRStt server, there will
>rarely if every be a conflict. If there is, the APRStt servers
>says "ambiguous, re-enter" and then you have to
>spell it out...
Well, when I go by this:
http://web.usna.navy.mil/~bruninga/aprstt.html
it says that your callsign should be:
A922444427A77
Which is why I said it was crazy to use touchtones. I found this note in
the spec:
"In other- words the exact way to spell WB4APR is 922444427A77 but in most
cases, just using one key press per letter or hitting 0924277 will be a
unique enough number that only matches WB4APR in your area without
ambiguity."
but I think it'd create too much of a problem in the long run. You're
going to have to have some sort of registration process. And if for some
reason it will take off then it'll be an interesting day when WA4BPS tries
to get on the air with the same code.
>But once APRStt hears 924277 or 5444 it never goes
>beyond that. APRStt converts it to WB4APR or K4HG
>when forwarded onto the APRS network...
Good in theory but still allows for re-use if it's deployed in a wider
than local scale.
>Store it in DTMF memory #1 and any time you want to
>show up on APRSjust replay DTMF #1 and you appear
>on FINDU an APRS everywhere...
Sure.
>You got it! Now you are on track...
No, I've been on track. Just trying to figure out how to make it
reasonably work nevermind finding a good hands down application for it.
The search continues...
Sean...
--
The punk rock will get you if the government don't get you first.
--Old 97's
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
KG4NRC http://www.rimboy.com Your source for the crap you know you need.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: New worldwide maps available for FindU
From: "Tim Makins, EI8IC" <contesting@eircom.net>
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 18:21:12 +0100
X-Message-Number: 54
Hi Steve - Yes, you are very welcome to host the full set on your servers if
you wish, and publicise them in whatever way you think best.
They are also available for use by other people, provided the copyright and
web-link messages are left un-touched. I would prefer to hear where someone
is using them, though. This applies to quite a lot of the maps available on
my website.
The Oceania, Eastern Oceania, and Northern Oceania do indeed span the
180/-180 border. The Southern Oceania does not. Do you cope with maps that
cross the equator too ? A few do this as well.
73s Tim EI8IC
www.qsl.net/ei8ic
Mirror Site: www.mapability.com/ei8ic
The home of the Global Overlay Mapper
Read the Dec'03 QST review online.
Many more Contest and Newbie Resources.
Free Custom IOTA Chart !! Have you got yours yet ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: USB TNC challenge
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@opentrac.org>
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 10:28:49 -0700
X-Message-Number: 55
Here's an engineering challenge for you... see if you can figure out how to
squeeze a KISS TNC into one of these packages:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=7760&
87Sku=C250-2001&CatId=469
It's got the right connectors already. Haven't figured out how to do it
short of a flipchip solution of some sort...
Seriously, if someone can point me to a source of somewhat larger USB-to-DIN
housings like this, I could probably do something. It'd most likely have
pretty limited buffer space, though.
Scott
N1VG
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: New worldwide maps available for FindU
From: Steve Dimse <k4hg@tapr.org>
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 13:32:40 -0400
X-Message-Number: 56
On 6/7/04 at 6:21 PM Tim Makins, EI8IC <contesting@eircom.net> sent:
>Hi Steve - Yes, you are very welcome to host the full set on your servers if
>you wish, and publicise them in whatever way you think best.
Thanks...
>The Oceania, Eastern Oceania, and Northern Oceania do indeed span the
>180/-180 border. The Southern Oceania does not. Do you cope with maps that
>cross the equator too ? A few do this as well.
No problem with the equator, but the Oceania South also does span the split:
TIEPOINT 0 0 112 -10
TIEPOINT 1294 771 -179 -50
The problem is the code does not recognize that discontinuity, so it thinks
the second point is to the left of it on a cartesian plane. I think I see
what I need to do, but I'm at work and people could die if I get sucked
into an algorithmic trance ;-) I'm surprised no one noted the trouble
before...
The equator is not a discontinuity, it works the way the math works, so no
problem...though were the map to span one of the poles, there would be
trouble...
The
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Voice Alert on 144.390 / 100 Hz
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 13:59:33 -0400
X-Message-Number: 57
Someoine asked about APRS Voice-Alert: (V.A.):
The Voice Alert concept has several mutually intertwined features:
1) Everyone listens with CTCSS 100 so they DONT hear any* packets but CAN
hear a quick QSY voice call. THIS is the fundamental principle.
2) Then Anyone can make a quick VOICE call using PL 100 to alert them to QSY.
3) BUT most radios cannot set CTCSS and at the same time NOT transmit PL
at the same time. THus, those mobiles that are running APRS and
LLLISTENING with CTCSS are also transmitting their once a minute or
so packets with PL.
4) BUT this is a FEATURE, not a problem:
Its like a radar ping. The ONLY other station that can hear it is the
exceedingly rare OTHER mobile also running V.A. and also within say 3
to 5 miles range.
5) But being alerted with a short Bleep once a minuet when you are in
DIRECT VOICE range of another APRS V.A. station should be considered
a great feature, not a nuisance.
6) If there are too many V.A mobiles within 3 to 5 miles of you, then you
might want to turn yours off, but this never happens on the OPEN ROAD
which is where the real value of APRS V.A. shines in the first place.
7) HERE IS THE KILLER HOWEVER!!!!!!! All it takes is one wise-acre HOME
station with a decent antenna to run VOICE ALERT and also TRANSMIT
packets, and now he KILLS all V.A. users over an entire city. Because
he is ALWEAYS transmitting packets and USUALLY NEVER THERE to respond
to a real V.A call.
So the question is, if you are hearing a 24/7 home station transmitting
packets with PL 100, then he is just plain killing the system and souring
the pot. Usually over say 1200 square miles (20 mile radius)!
But if it is a mobile station with a DIRECT MOBILE-to MOBILE range of only
4 miles or so, then he is not 24/7, he is rarely in the same place, and HE
is the one you would probably want to hear anyway. And his "V.A.radar
range is only about 50 sq miles or only 5% of the effect of a base
station.
SO MONITOR the packets. If they are a mobile then that is acceptible. If
they are a 24/7 home station, sending PL 100 paekets, then he should be
educated...
de Wb4APR, Bob
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: USB TNC challenge
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@opentrac.org>
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 11:02:24 -0700
X-Message-Number: 58
Hmm, I think Lyris might have eaten this message... let me try it again...
Here's an engineering challenge for you... see if you can figure out how to
squeeze a KISS TNC into one of these packages:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=7760&
87Sku=C250-2001&CatId=469
It's got the right connectors already. Haven't figured out how to do it
short of a flipchip solution of some sort...
Seriously, if someone can point me to a source of somewhat larger USB-to-DIN
housings like this, I could probably do something. It'd most likely have
pretty limited buffer space, though.
Scott
N1VG
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: [bob_vs_scott_sig]
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@opentrac.org>
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 11:04:06 -0700
X-Message-Number: 59
This message came out blank for me... did anyone else get it, or is Lyris
having trouble today?
Scott
N1VG
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Rich" <vk4tec@hotmail.com>
To: "Scott Miller" <scott@3xf.com>; "TAPR APRS Special Interest Group"
<aprssig@lists.tapr.org>
Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 7:17 AM
Subject: [bob_vs_scott_sig]
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: Introducing "OPENAPRS"
From: "Christensen, Eric" <CHRISTENSENE@MAIL.ECU.EDU>
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 13:47:36 -0400
X-Message-Number: 60
>>>>"Scott Miller" <scott@3xf.com> 6/6/04 3:07:50 PM >>>
>>We've talked about an APRS 2.0 spec many times,
>>and Bob shoots it down for the same reasons he does
>>OpenTRAC.
>Yes, becasue no one has showed us what they think
>APRS 2.0 is, nor how it would be backwards compatible
>to existing users...
>Bob
Well, maybe what we need is a transition spec. One that could start to
implement a cleaner code for APRS (or whatever you want to call it) while
keeping the existing code. As programmers and HARDWARE catches up we can
start discontinuing the older code until it is not existent anymore. It
isn't an overnight fix but that isn't what we want/need now anyway. But to
sit back and look at tomorrow as if it will never come is completely wrong.
It is time we started motivating this technology before we get passed by the
commercial world (if we haven't already).
Eric KF4OTN
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Voice Alert on 144.390 / 100 Hz
From: "Rochte, Robert" <rrochte@gpacademy.org>
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 14:04:59 -0400
X-Message-Number: 61
>1) Everyone listens with CTCSS 100 so they DONT hear
> any* packets but CAN hear a quick QSY voice call.
> THIS is the fundamental principle.
Hey, I have a great idea - I'll use PL 100 on my next balloon! (JUST
KIDDING!!!)
=)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: New APRS Digi-Object-Maintenance format
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 14:14:24 -0400
X-Message-Number: 62
>>>"Scott Miller" <scott@opentrac.org> 6/7/04 11:30:03 AM >>>
>Your whole point of having the digi originate the object
>for its users was to avoid two channel slots for every
>object transmission (the input and digipeted copy) and
>This is all completely lost if you then have one digi DIGI
>through another. You are back to square one and have
>given up most all that you gained...
>If they transmit WIDE2-2, and request a cache, they're
>still saving the initial transmission, and using no more
>remote bandwidth than they would have anyway.
Not at all. The first transmission from the originator is only heard by
one digi and can only collide with the few users in range of that one
digi.. THAT is the only ON-AIR difference. THAT is the only packet that
we are eliminating by this DIGI-OBJ-MAINTENANCE idea. If there are a lot
of objects and there are a lot of users in that area (say a big event) then
the savings is VERY GOOD and very worth doing.
But if you then let the first DIGI then turn around and send the packet OUT
as a WIDE2-2, then this ONE digi's packet next hits FOUR more digis, and
then they each generate 16 more copies. Then the savings of this WHOLE
process that onlys saves the initial UPLINK packet is totally watered down
to only a savings of 1 out of 20 channel slots and in my opinion is now
simply not worth all this trouble at all.
Please reconsider what the intent was: To have the DIGI send an object
EFFICIENTLY to all of its users in view when IT hears the chnnel CLEAR so
that the channel load required for an OBJECT is cut in HALF and the HALF
are 100% successful.
Letting that smart digi, then DIGI though other DIGI's completely
undermines ANY of the gains of this system!
Thus, this is only worth doing if it is LOCAL, that is DIRECT from the digi
that takes over control. The SECOND order benefit is that it discourages
SPAMMING and EGOOBJECTS... which have no value on APRS but are just QRM to
the next DIGI over...
de WB4APR
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: New APRS Digi-Object-Maintenance format
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 14:17:02 -0400
X-Message-Number: 63
>>>"Scott Miller" <scott@opentrac.org> 6/7/04 11:32:14 AM >>>
>In my proposal at least, you could just set the first
>digi hop to the digi you want. Though I suppose that
>should be explicitly stated - the digi should only perform
>caching if the packet is heard direct (no digis used),
>and if the path matches the digi's call or aliases.
Ah, Good thinking. That resolved the last open issue in my mind. This
means that you CAN designate which digi you want to take over if there is
more than one capable. I love it! Great.! (but still direct only)...
Otherwise we give people a way to target SPAM, out of their own backyard,
and into someone elses...
Bob
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: APRS user beware part 2
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 14:24:33 -0400
X-Message-Number: 64
I STRONGLY disagree with your assertion:
>>>"Scott Miller" <scott@opentrac.org> 6/7/04 11:51:52 AM >>>
>If half the users are using OpenTRAC, then I'm afraid
>your TH-D7 has been obsolete for a few years already,
>Bob. =] I think the ratio stands at something like 1:1000
>right now.
My recollection is that of the 20,000 APRS stations on the air that
something like 3,000 of them were kenwoods. That is 16% not the 0.001 you
just claimed.... and as far as the ratio of packets, since a Mobile
kenwood in motion is usually operating at ten times the rate of a fixed
station, I would say that fully HALF of all packets on the air are probbly
kenwoods.
And those very short Mic-E formatted packets are what OPENtrack plans on
obsoleteing by its *longer* opentrack format... Seems like a step
backwards in my opinion...
de WB4APR, Bob
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: OPENtrak incompatibilites not needed.
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 14:28:58 -0400
X-Message-Number: 65
>>>"KC2MMi" <kc2mmi@verizon.net> 6/7/04 12:15:04 PM >>>
<< 2) We even added a fully backwards compatible resolution
to one foot to APRS ...That can even be seen
on the Kenwoods! >>
>Bob? What mode is this?
Its the proposal that was added to the errata page about a month or so ago
to meet the demand for higher precision and a datum that was backwards
compatible. See http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/aprs/errata.html...
Bob
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: [bob_vs_scott_sig]
From: Robbie - WA9INF <mwrobertson@comcast.net>
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 13:31:34 -0500
X-Message-Number: 66
YOU are having the trouble Scott, I got both your messages about the
TNC/USB challenge, and this one!!
Robbie
P.S. Maybe your own computer is starting to hiccup on so much
traffic???? <g>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: The NEXT Greatest thing to APRS!
From: Danny <danny@messano.net>
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 14:33:44 -0400
X-Message-Number: 67
SJ> but I think it'd create too much of a problem in the long run. You're
SJ> going to have to have some sort of registration process. And if for some
SJ> reason it will take off then it'll be an interesting day when WA4BPS tries
SJ> to get on the air with the same code.
Note that it's common for sequential callsigns to come from VE sessions,
and you could very well have ke4rap, ke4raq, ke4rar, and ke4ras all in the
same area.
Danny
KE4RAP
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Voice Alert on 144.390 / 100 Hz
From: Jeff King <jeff@aerodata.net>
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 13:42:25 -0500 (CDT)
X-Message-Number: 68
Hi Earl:
Quoting Earl Needham <needhame1@plateautel.net>:
>Actually, if you're MONITORING for Voice Alert, you would want
>to transmit your packets with the 100 Hz tone. This lets other Voice Alert
>users know that you're there.
Pseudo "human readable" CSMA maybe?
I've been reading the SIG here and I noticed a few stating that "144.39 was
for APRS only". Help me out here, I'm looking at the APRS spec and I don't
see "voice alert" in it. Lots of talk about data and ax.25 though...
Doesn't "voice alert" somehow imply "voice" on what is supposedly a packet
channel?
I am really confused about the rules on APRS. Sometimes it just seems like
they are just made up....
Oh, but since voice alert isn't in the SPEC, make sure you use a non 0xF0
PID on voice alert ;-)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: Introducing "OPENAPRS"
From: Danny <danny@messano.net>
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 15:05:21 -0400
X-Message-Number: 69
I think it's basically boiled down to this:
APRS is not going to change. The key players refuse to allow any changes,
because it would hurt the users (even if they are the ones looking for
change).
If we want different/better, the wheel needs to be reinvented somewhere
else, and the users can choose and migrate somewhere else.
APRS 1.0 is the first and last version of APRS.
These guys make Microsoft look *easy going*, *pro open source*, and
*willing to change*.
Danny
KE4RAP
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Subject: Kenwood APRS radio...
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 15:10:54 -0400
X-Message-Number: 70
>>>"KC2MMi" <kc2mmi@verizon.net> 6/7/04 12:25:09 PM >>>
>Wes, may I suggest it is well past time that the ham
>community put some brains together and obsoleted
>the Kenwoods for once and all?
Wow, please explain this OPENtrck attitude to OBSOLETE the one radio we
have that does all of APRS and which represents almost 50% of the packets
on the air most of the working day?
Would someone please do a APRS-IS statistical Analysis to show the TOTAL
packet count from say 6 AM Eastern time to say 9 PM Pacific time of the
number of Kenwood packets compared to all packets on the air?
I think this would be an EYE opener to the biggest complainers on this list
who don't even own one, and who have been misslead by programmer propaganda
and who claim nobody uses them in their area?
My bet is tht it is quite a large n umber...
de WB4APR, Bob
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Subject: Re: APRS user beware part 2
From: "DG2JW" <dg2jw@privateasylum.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 22:25:17 +0300
X-Message-Number: 71
>My recollection is that of the 20,000 APRS stations on the air
>that something like 3,000 of them were kenwoods. That
>is 16% not the 0.001 you just claimed.... and as far as the
>ratio of packets, since a Mobile kenwood in motion is usually
>operating at ten times the rate of a fixed station, I would say
>that fully HALF of all packets on the air are probbly
>kenwoods.
Are we counting Europe and Asia as well, or just the United States and or
North South America?
best regards
Julian
OH8GEJ
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