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To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: RE: The NEXT Greatest thing to APRS!
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 20:41:33 -0400
X-Message-Number: 102
>>>"Scott Miller" <scott@3xf.com> 6/6/04 1:35:48 PM >>>
>I think the main thing that's turned me off to the concept
>is my experience with cellphones using the same type
>of input device. It's tedious and frustrating.
But it is what 100% of every single HAM has in his hand already and what he
brings to every event!
>I'd prefer having a single button to talk to my phone
>with CW, it'd be faster.
Great, then DO IT. APRStt would be completely compatible with that. You
are the programmer, you could easily decode a single TTkey or the PTT key
when sending CW. The point is, it takes IMMEDIATE advantage of whta the
HAM users already has and lets 100% of every HAM participate in this joy of
APRS, not just those that buy Kenwoods or trackers or HAMhuds...
>And looking at the four 2-meter handhelds I've got in
>easy reach, one doesn't have a DTMF keypad (DJ-S11T),
>and none of the others show the corresponding letters
>on the keys like a phone does.
no, but even the tiniest of HT's without a Keypad still allows you to
PROGRAM in DTMF memories. Into one of those you program your call. Into
the other 15, you can put your favorite locations. or Messages or Emails,
or "IVE ARRIVED" messages or whatever. And you can still send any DTMF
sequence by putting it into a DTMF memory using whatever method that HT
requries...
>My phone also lets me see what I've typed.
> My HT doesn't.
How often does your CALL change? Shucks the single biggest advantage of
APRStt is tht it lets EVERY HT user identify his location via a simple DTMF
memory. Remember the BIG advantage of APRStt is the VOICE of the APRStt
engine, responding to simple TTone queries or announcing where the lead
runner is to all listening on the APRStt channel.
Dont limit yourself by all the things you claim you cant do easily,
concentrate on all the tremendouse things you COULD do with a little
programming of APRStt...
>I'd rather see something like a tiny barcode wand
>with an APRS encoder that'd plug in like a speaker
>mic.
Ah more things to buy and more things to obsolete. WHy do it the hard way
when EVERYONE already has a TOUCHTONE in their hands and can HEAR the VOICE
responses of the APRStt server...???
Bob
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: OPENtrack Binary Versus ASCII
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 20:46:52 -0400
X-Message-Number: 103
>>>John Hall <n5jrh@houstonhams.org> 6/6/04 1:30:56 PM >>>
>>Programmers whining again. And why would the END
>>USER in the field care if its ASCII or BINARY as long
>>as it works?
>>... APRS never planned on using binary and never
>>will. It was fundamental to APRS that all packets were
>>7 bit ascii to avoid any problems with Binary, ASCII works
>>everywhere. Binary does not. Remember, APRS is supposed
>>to work for users, not make the job simple for programmers...
>Why not use binary? It is an acceptable form of encoding,
>parses easier than ASCII, and the end user really does not
>have to see the packet, just the parsed output.
Ah, easier for programmers again. And back when we started APRS, BINARY
would not pass trough many systems, is not USER friendly, is hard to decode
and cannot be written down in plain text... But it doesnt matter. We
didnt use it, and we see no advantages to it for the end user worthy of
obsoleting 20,000 users just so the programmers can play in binary...
Bob
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: How about making OpenTrak part of APRS SPEC?
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 20:49:36 -0400
X-Message-Number: 104
We arent talking about the AX.25 spec, we are talking about the paragraph
in the APRS spec....! APRS says it uses UI PID F0. No more, no less.
Bob
..
>>>"Mikael Eriksson" <mikael.eriksson@mbox301.swipnet.se> 6/6/04
1:40:38 PM >>>
>This paragraph is being interpreted in a manner that was NOT
>the original intent. I wrote it. That sentence says NOTHING
>about PID's. It was referring to all other UI packet formats.
>And UI packets ALL have a PID of F0. The same as APRS...
If you look into the AX.25 spec it says that UI packets can have
pids (layer 3 protocol) that are:
0x01 ISO 8208/CCITT X.25 PLP
0x06 Compressed TCP/IP
0x07 Uncompressed TCP/IP
0xC3 TEXNET
0xC4 Link Quality Protocol
0xCA Appletalk
0xCB Appletalk ARP
0xCC ARPA Internet Protocol
0xCD ARPA Address Resolution
0xCE FlexNet
0xCF NET/ROM
0xF0 No layer 3 protocol implemented
This mean that all these pids can show up on the APRS frequency and
are legal AX.25 UI frames. But APRS can't share the freq with any of
the above protocols without breaking. This means that is is the APRS
frequency that tells if it is APRS or not!??
>1) The spec was very clear in saying that APRS *TRANSMIT
> with a PID of F0
>2) The authors of the spec and anyone with any experience
>over the last 22 year of AX.25 knew that it was IMPOSSIBLE
>to declare that APRS "should" only RECEIVE same.
>Since the authors of the spec all KNEW that this is a TNC
>function and the APRS spec was REQUIRED to only
>address APRS, and not TNC's.
Why bother to transmit with 0xF0 if it isn't sure that is ends up at
the other
station as 0xF0? Everyone SHALL transmit 0xF0 but can't be sure that
everyone else does?!
All this APRS pid stuff does not make sense........
Regards
Mikael Eriksson
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: How about making OpenTrak part of APRS SPEC?
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 20:53:15 -0400
X-Message-Number: 105
Notice that of all those PIDS you list, ONLY ONE OF THEM is the UNPROTO
PID, and that is F0, and that is what is in the APRS spec and that is what
is on the APRS channel.... End of discussion. Bob
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Introducing "OPENAPRS"
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 21:02:05 -0400
X-Message-Number: 106
>>>"DG2JW" <dg2jw@privateasylum.co>>>
>Since it seems that the APRS world is about to be split
>apart into two groups. Why not introduce a new
>Specification based on the Opentrac concept and
>call it OPENAPRS?
People are missunderstanding me completely, I am not opposed to OPENtrack.
I think it is a GREAT thing for making it easier for programemrs to write
better and cleaner code. But that ONLY has benefit if the progrmmaers are
not saddled by the LEGACY of APRS and its 20,000 users.
The only way for them to not be saddled with the legacy of APRS is to go do
it on anohter clean channel where they will not interfere with a working
APRS network...
>H*ll OPENAPRS could also be implemented in a way
>that it can also ingest APRS 1.0 formatted data while
>still providing the functional benefits being argued for
>by Scott.
What a NIGHTMARE! It is having to imploement all the rich features in APRS
that all the OPENtrack programmers are trying to avoid! They want a simple
clean protocol that only does the new things they want do to and that is
not encumbered by all the things APRS does... I DONT BLAME THEM.
So please get it into your head that requiring code to support BOTH is
shooting OPENtrack to death. Thus, the only way is a clean break. And the
only way to do that is on a new frequency!
>The result would be people who are interested
>would get envolved, those who are not would not.
Yes, and they select with the TUNE knob!
>Those like me who see the value of both systems
>would have the best of both worlds. What do you think?
I think it is an EXCELLENT idea. Put OPEN track on 145.55 or 145.01 in the
USA and let the users have the best of BOTH worlds. ALl the existing
trackers, Mic-E's and Kenwoods can stay on 144.39 and continnute to work
until they die. And OPENtrack programmers can have a virgin frequency and
not have to put up with all this legacy hardware...
Bob
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: KISS mode is not always the answer !
From: "AE5PL Lists" <HamLists@ametx.com>
Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 20:03:27 -0500
X-Message-Number: 107
VK3SB adapted aprsd to the Linux kernel ax25 support years ago.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Curt Mills
>
>And aprsd handles AX.25 kernel mode interfaces now, right?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: OPENtrack Binary Versus ASCII
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 21:06:35 -0400
X-Message-Number: 108
>>>Jeff King <jeff@aerodata.net> 6/6/04 2:27:25 PM >>>
>>Programmers whining again.
>
>The ITU differs with you.
>1.56 amateur service: A radiocommunication service
>for the purpose of self-training, intercommunication and
>technical investigations carried out by amateurs,...
Absolutely, But that doesnt mean that you can start investigating PSK-31
in the middle of an SSTV net, or experimenting with CW on an SSB net, or
OPENtrack BINARY protocols on an existing APRS net which has a clearly
stated purpose, a clearly stated protocol, and a clear mission.
I have nothing aginast OPENtrack, I just oppose it on the APRS channel.
Dual systems have never worked in the past in HAM radio and there is
nothing that indicates it will work here... AS WE HAVE CLEARLY SEEN...
BOb
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: DX spots on APRS!
From: "Bill Diaz" <william.diaz@comcast.net>
Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 20:12:34 -0500
X-Message-Number: 109
Kurt,
Haven't seen Jeff on APRS in years. Doubt that he has anything on 144.39,
not even mobile. Yep, just looked on the map, no Jeff. Can't find him on
FindU either Wonder if he will even bother to run OT?
Bill
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: OPENtrack Binary Versus ASCII
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 21:14:46 -0400
X-Message-Number: 110
>>>Henk de Groot <henk.de.groot@hetnet.nl> 6/6/04 2:33:15 PM >>>
>Clear bennefits for the end user:
>
>1) more up-time
Not the fault of APRS, the fault of poor programming...
>2) air-time efficiency build in
pure BS. We have already shown that OPENtrack is longer than the most
popular APRS mobile protocol on the air. The Mic-E format.
>3) doesn't crash as soon as somebody comes on
>air with a correctly tagged completely different
>incompatible protocol.
Progarmmer problems, not APRS problems...
>4) doesn't put users in China because of a wrong
>TNC setting
Not the fault of APRS...
>5) allows addition of the symbols they need for the job
APRS has over 350 unique sysmbols and quite unlimited growth potential. It
has added EVERY new symbol that has been requested and agreed to on the
APRSssig...
>6) saves air time by packing the needed elements into
>a single packet
Pure BS. Look at all the dozen "needed" elements that
are already built into the single APRS position format.
>7) enables the availability of small feature rich
>low-power devices
Nothing to do with the protocol.
>8) reliable, you KNOW what you get on air:
If programmers would just follow the APRS spec, they too would know exatly
what they would get.
Bob
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: OPENtrack for programmers, APRS for users
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 21:17:05 -0400
X-Message-Number: 111
>>>Henk de Groot <henk.de.groot@hetnet.nl> 6/6/04 2:45:56 PM >>>
At 13:24 6-6-2004 -0400, Robert Bruninga wrote:
>Programmers whining again. Where is PID 77 of any benefit
>to the END USER IN THE FIELD?
>
>Do you suggest he should have used PID F0 (TEXT)
>for the binary OpenTrack protocol and trash every
>existing APRS application including Kenwoods
>instead?
No, We told him from day one, that a binary protocol on the APRS channel is
incompatible and will cause problems. Either dont use binary, and make it
compatible with the existing protocol dirven and SPEC'ed channel or take it
elsewhere...
Bob
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: OPENtrack Binary Versus ASCII
From: "Gregg G. Wonderly" <gregg@skymaster.cytetech.com>
Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 20:21:36 -0500
X-Message-Number: 112
>Ah, easier for programmers again. And back when we
>started APRS, BINARY would not pass trough many
>systems, is not USER friendly, is hard to decode and
>cannot be written down in plain text... But it doesnt
>matter. We didnt use it, and we see no advantages
>to it for the end user worthy of obsoleting 20,000 users
>just so the programmers can play in binary...
Humm, but you will require a TNC to decode AX.25. Why don't we all just
use CW for this application? Then there wouldn't be a real need for a TNC.
Everyone could just come as they are. Humm, then everyone would need to
know CW at 60wpm. That would put certain requirements on the participants
in the same way the TNC does and the way that having some ability to
display the protocol does (a terminal of some nature or a computing device
with a display of some sort). The binary business is not the issue here.
if printable is what is needed, we could create an OpenTrac where
everything is base-91 encoded. Then it will be printable and you'll be
able to just bring a calculator and and a notepad with you to decode new
elements that your software doesn't know about yet.
I can't show you anything understandable right now, because I don't have a
GUI attached yet. I have a Java based application that decodes OpenTrac,
and uses dynamic code downloading to get updated Element parsers for each
element. The classpath in java and the URLClassLoader and dynamic,
distributed systems technologies such as Jini make it possible to get
trusted code from anywhere on the planet at any time. We'll even be able
to do this over OpenTrac because we can use HTTP tunneled through a pair of
OpenTrack elements to send these requests to nodes that can provide
services via alternet networks. This means that there can be a central
place where people can get element parsers from. These parsers will
provide access to the binary data in standardized signatures with textual
versions of the encoded data as well. Thus, people can see text
information even if their client doesn't know what to do with a particular
element type.
Other programming languages/platforms can take full advantage of HTTP
tunneling to perhaps fetch maps etc. The cool thing is that since we have
a broadcast network, everyone can cache items that others are requesting to
have them ready for use if needed.
There are of course a lot more opportunities to take a look at...
-----
gregg@cytetech.com (Cyte Technologies Inc)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: DX spots on APRS!
From: Jeff King <jeff@aerodata.net>
Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 21:19:29 -0400
X-Message-Number: 113
Kurt:
Well, your the third person to ask, first on the SIG however (and I just
noticed you copied this to the SIG).
Amazing how personal these things can get. But I'll answer your question:
You want to see me on a map, type my call into aprsworld. I don't transmit
enough on 144.39 for FINDU to typically hold it, + no gateways near me, and
more often then not, I am just puttering around. Perhaps you caught my
presentation at the 2001 DCC (aprs forum) on ad-hoc AVL systems? Lately I
have been playing around with non-realtime 802.11b position reporting.
As to the rest, well, if you have been following this, the only "gripe" I
have is all the misinformation. Please feel free to challenge anything I have
said, I've tried to back any and all opinions up with facts and web links.
But I can't help you if you just don't like what you hear.
If I may ask, what is your interest here and how does it contribute to the
discussion at hand?
And of course, what first hand problems did you observe with the OpenTrak
testing last Thursday?
Thanks ahead of time for following up on this e-mail.
-jeff wb8wka
On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 17:25:28 -0700, Kurt O. Jauss wrote:
>Question Jeff? I see a lot of e-mail from you about APRS and OT
>however I haven't seen your position on my map or on FINDU. Do you
>run APRS or just gripe about the way Bob implemented it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: OPENtrack for programmers, APRS for users
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 21:36:44 -0400
X-Message-Number: 114
>>>"Scott Miller" <scott@3xf.com> 6/6/04 3:04:34 PM >>>
>Programmers whining again. Where is PID 77 of any benefit
>to the END USER IN THE FIELD?
>
>It was programmers who developed HTML and HTTP.
>Where was the benefit to users there?
They didnt try to do it on the national APRS channel where they would have
been told in advance that it would cause problems to existing users of the
frequency...
>I hate to tell you this, but 98% of what happens on APRS
>isn't important.
I agree with you cojmpletely. SO go somewhere else and not interfere with
those that seem to like to use it anyway.
>Programmers whinning again. No one said it was easy,
>but shucks, I did it in BASIC for gosh sakes...
Kenwood wasn't able to do it, if I recall. They don't support all of the
weather formats that were published at the time, do they?
They support the ONLY APRS weather formats in the SPEC. Any other of the
DOZENS of weather formats are not APRS! Duh...
>Two things. First, the goal of the OPENtrack spec is
>to define a rich set of building blocks that'll let you
>[the programmer] implement all sorts of applications
>in a consistent manner. Second, I think what was being
>said here is that in OpenTRAC you never risk breaking
>existing code by adding new features.
NOthing wrong with that. Just DONT BREAK the existing APRS chnanel by
transmitting BINARY on it. Move the totally incompatible OPENtrack BINARY
to a different channel..
>Then why define anything besides a comment field?
>What is your justification for telemetry and weather
>formats when that could all be done in plain text?
They are!
T105 means temperature is 105
R103 means 10.3 inches of rain in the last hour
H89 means the humidity is 89%
P000 means no parcipitation in the last day.
etc. It is quite readable to any one with an interest....
>Maybe because people like seeing wind speed and
>direction indicators?
APRSdos puts the wind vector on all WX stations on all maps. Don;'t the
other APRS versions?
>Or because it's convenient to see telemetry values
>plotted on a graph? Do you not consider that a
>benefit to the end user?
Absolutely, I can write simple code to plot APRS telemetry on a graph,
cannot the new programmers?
> 12v / 102 deg.
>This is what the OpenTracker does in APRS mode.
>It's simple, but there's no way to plot changes over
>time, or to see at a glance what stations are
>reporting this information without looking at their comments.
Its trivial to do. I would have not problem at all writing a plotter for
that...
>In OPENTRCK, Every single HAMHUND will have to
>download and install NEW CODE to parse it and EVERY
>OTHER single change as well. This is why APRS targets
>the END USER. No upgrades required...
>But we're back to the HTML analogy again. HTML was
>designed to be device-independent - used right, it
>renders just fine on a PDA screen as well as a full-sized
>monitor.
And PEOPLE JUST HATE TO SEE IT IN THEIR EMAIL. Perfect analogy. HTML is
fantastic, but just NOT stuffed into EMAIL on a text email system. So
why stuff the totally incompatilbe OPENTrack on to an APRS only channel
where it is totally incompatible and BINARY causes problems!
>I think you need to get your head out of QBasic for
>a while and take a look at what's out there now.
I love it all! Just dont cram it on existing users on the APRS channel!
>With the Internet, and with more modern languages
>like Java, it's much simpler to distribute updates to
>address new features. We can benefit the users by
>adding new features quickly, without drawn-out
>debates on how to squeeze them into the spec.
Great, just do it where OPENTrack can thrive without TRASHING existing
users! Go to the OPENtrack frequency, not the APRS frequency.
>[that nobody on there already can read!] To me that
>is called interference in an existing net...
>
>No different than a user-defined APRS format.
I am not advocating the user-defined format. I am advocating for you to
either use an APRS compatible format on the APRS frequency or go to a
differnent one where you wont crash existing users...
>You've said repeatedly that if I want centimeter resolution
>in a position I should define a new format for it.
Yes, but transmit the 1foot APRS compatible portion of it in the APRS
format so that all users can benefit. Only take the 1 centimer part off to
a user defined format for only those u sers that need it...
Bob
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: Introducing "OPENAPRS"
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 21:39:46 -0400
X-Message-Number: 115
>>>"Scott Miller" <scott@3xf.com> 6/6/04 3:07:50 PM >>>
>We've talked about an APRS 2.0 spec many times,
>and Bob shoots it down for the same reasons he does
>OpenTRAC.
Yes, becasue no one has showed us what they think APRS 2.0 is, nor how it
would be backwards compatible to existing users...
Bob
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: How about making OpenTrak part of APRS SPEC?
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@3xf.com>
Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 18:37:32 -0700
X-Message-Number: 116
>Common knowledge about the last 20+ years of AX.25
>TNC's that all use F0 for UI packets. Read any TNC
>manual. ALl of them use F0 for UI packets.
The UI designation has absolutely nothing to do with PID 0xF0, converse
mode, text, or any of that. I don't know what YOU think UI means, but
here's what the AX.25 spec says:
2.3.4.3.6 Unnumbered Information (UI) Frame
The Unnumbered Information frame contains PID and information fields and is
used to pass information along the link outside the normal information
controls. This allows information fields to go back and forth on the link
bypassing flow control. Since these frames are not acknowledgeable, if one
gets obliterated, there is no way to recover it. A received UI frame with
the P bit set shall cause a response to be transmitted. This response shall
be a DM frame when in the disconnected state or a RR (or RNR, if
appropriate) frame in the information transfer state.
Scott
N1VG
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: OPENtrack Binary Versus ASCII
From: Jeff King <jeff@aerodata.net>
Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 21:42:34 -0400
X-Message-Number: 117
reality check
On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 20:46:52 -0400, Robert Bruninga wrote:
>Ah, easier for programmers again. And back when we started APRS,
>BINARY would not pass trough many systems,
APRS was started, what 1993 or 1995? I'd been running tcp/ip since Karns
net.exe since I thi had good reasons, but BINARY incompatibility of the network was
NOT one of them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: New APRS Digi-Object-Maintenance format
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 21:50:50 -0400
X-Message-Number: 118
>>>Greg Kulosa <greg@kulosa.org> 6/6/04 3:51:10 PM >>>
>DIGI-OBJECT FORMAT: Identical to existing OBJECT format
>TOCALL: OBJxyz
>Where: x = expiration time in hours from now
> y=periiodiciy in minutes
> z=tbd
> where x and y are base 36 (1-9,A-Z)
>
>Hmm. That means that the longest delay between
>re-transmissions of this object is 36 minutes? Most
>objects that I think of doing this with are re-broadcast
>every 60 minutes or so.
Then it is of little value to a REAL-TIME TACTICAL event. Especially in
the presence of a collision. Just one collision and the NEW location of a
moved object would not be updated in 2 hours!!!????
That has NOTHING to do with tactical real-time that APRS was designed to
do! of short.
>Also, the TOCALL of 'OBJxyz' is an altnet, isn't it?
Yes, since it is a directive to only the digi, then only the digi has to
receive it...
>What TOCALL will the Digi use to re-transmit the object?
Whatever APRS TOCALL it already uses...
> For some objects you might care, since the TOCALL
>is used to set the icon (GPSxy, etc.)
Never. GPSxyz is only used for raw NMEA packets. It would never apply to
an object.
>Also, if I transmit my request with WIDE2-2, and 4 Digi's
>hear it and then start re-transmitting my objects, it will
>actually create MORE traffic than if I just sent them myself.
That is why there must be the restriction for it to only have been heaerd
direct and to only put it out direct.
>You basically want the objects to travel the same number
>of hops that they would if you had broadcast them yourself.
Absolutley not. The whole advantage was that they are ORIGINATED by the
DIGI and the DIGI knows when the channel is clear. As soon as you let a
DIGI start HOPING the object through other digis, you are BACK TO SQUARE
ONE and have lost all the advantages that Scott proposed...
Bob
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: The NEXT Greatest thing to APRS!
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@3xf.com>
Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 18:52:16 -0700
X-Message-Number: 119
>WHy do it the hard way when EVERYONE already
>has a TOUCHTONE in their hands and can HEAR
>the VOICE responses of the APRStt server...???
Because it's freaking tedious! My cell phone lets me use shortcut macros,
it's got the letters printed on the keys, I can see exactly what I'm typing,
and I still find it horrendously inefficient and annoying to send more than
a 'yes' or 'no' response.
I'm not saying APRStt is without merit. By all means, keep working on it if
it works for you. I just haven't seen enough utility in the system to make
it worth messing with. Either you're making people enter long strings of
DTMF digits, or you're making them figure out obscure message features of
their radios. Yeah, my other Alinco here has a 'MESS' button, and I'm
pretty sure it's related to what you're talking about, but I have no idea
how to use it and haven't seen the manual in years. To expect someone to
show up without prior experience or knowledge of the system and get it to
work right is asking a lot.
Granted, the barcode idea has issues, but I think it's workable. I'm pretty
sure you could even hook up an off-the-shelf barcode wand to a KPC-3+ and
make it work with no software changes - just use the gps head features to
extract pre-formatted APRS packets from an appropriate barcode. Just
something to think about...
Scott
N1VG
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: How about making OpenTrak part of APRS SPEC?
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@3xf.com>
Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 19:03:22 -0700
X-Message-Number: 120
And why was it specified at all, if it's not intended to be used for
anything?
Scott
N1VG
-----Original Message-----
We arent talking about the AX.25 spec, we are talking about the paragraph
in the APRS spec....! APRS says it uses UI PID F0. No more, no less.
Bob
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Subject: Re: DX spots on APRS!
From: Steve Dimse <k4hg@tapr.org>
Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 22:02:54 -0400
X-Message-Number: 121
On 6/6/04 at 8:12 PM Bill Diaz <william.diaz@comcast.net> sent:
> Haven't seen Jeff on APRS in years. Doubt that he has anything on 144.39,
>not even mobile. Yep, just looked on the map, no Jeff. Can't find him on
>FindU either Wonder if he will even bother to run OT?
Doubt it, but you can bet once opentrack has enough users he'll start giving
Scott a hard time ;-)
So Scott, be careful what you wish for!
Steve
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Subject: Re: DX spots on APRS!
From: Jeff King <jeff@aerodata.net>
Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 22:03:04 -0400
X-Message-Number: 122
Interesting then how I decoded those balloon spots on 144.39 last Thursday.
Check the SIG, I posted them, yet somehow, just down the road in Chicago, you
couldn't decode them. Forgot to hook the coax up to your radio?
BTW, is there a point here?
On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 20:12:34 -0500, Bill Diaz wrote:
>Kurt, Haven't seen Jeff on APRS in years. Doubt that he has
>anything on 144.39, not even mobile. Yep, just looked on the map,
>no Jeff. Can't find him on FindU either Wonder if he will even
>bother to run OT?
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