OpenBCM V1.07b12 (Linux)

Packet Radio Mailbox

DB0FHN

[JN59NK Nuernberg]

 Login: GUEST





  
ZL3AI  > APRDIG   10.06.04 11:34l 739 Lines 29649 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
BID : 3417-ZL3AI
Read: GUEST
Subj: TAPR Digest, Jun 04, 1/8
Path: DB0FHN<DB0FOR<DB0SIF<DB0EA<DB0RES<ON0AR<ON0AR<ON1CED<HA8FY<HG8LXL<
      VK4TTT<ZL2BAU<ZL3VML
Sent: 040610/0800Z @:ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC #:25586 [Chch-NZ] FBB7.00i $:3417-ZL3AI
From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To  : APRDIG@WW

TAPR APRS Special Interest Group Digest for Friday, June 04, 2004.

1. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
2. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
3. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
4. Re: Balloon and Aircraft Paths
5. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
6. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
7. Re:  Solar tetroon Sky Diamond - signal loss????
8. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
9. Balloon lost    was RE:  Solar tetroon Sky Diamond - signal loss????
10. RE:  Solar tetroon Sky Diamond - signal loss????
11. Re:  Solar tetroon Sky Diamond - signal loss????
12. RE: Balloon lost    was RE:  Solar tetroon Sky Diamond - signal loss????
13. Re: Modes and Frequencies
14. OpenTrak & APRS -was- Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
15. TNC vs PID -was- Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
16. Re: OPNTRK packets and exciting position reports from Findu  RE: [apr ssig]
Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
17. Re:  Solar tetroon Sky Diamond - signal loss????
18. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
19. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
20. Re: Dynamic unproto path for land use
21. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
22. Enough griping, here's _a_ solution...
23. Re:  Solar tetroon Sky Diamond - signal loss????
24. Re: [ Jeff King ] Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft  right now!
25. RE: How about making OpenTrak part of APRS SPEC?
26. Re: Dynamic unproto path for land use
27. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
28. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
29. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
30. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
31. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
32. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
33. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
34. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
35. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
36. Re: OPNTRK packets and exciting position reports from Findu  RE: [apr ssig]
Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
37. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
38. Re: Dynamic unproto path for land use
39. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
40. Re:  Solar tetroon Sky Diamond - signal loss????
41. Re:  Solar tetroon Sky Diamond - signal loss????
42. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
43. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
44. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
45. 30 Meter Policing needed.
46. APRS and PIDS
47. Re: TNC vs PID -was- Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6  aloft right now!
48. Re:  Solar tetroon Sky Diamond - signal loss????
49. Re: Modes and Frequencies
50. Re:  Solar tetroon Sky Diamond - signal loss????
51. Sky Diamond 6 landing site prediction
52. RE: How about making OpenTrak part of APRS SPEC?
53. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
54. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
55. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
56. Worthy???
57. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
58. OPENtrack incompatibilities
59. Re:  Solar tetroon Sky Diamond - signal loss????
60. Re: Worthy???
61. Re:  Solar tetroon Sky Diamond - signal loss????
62. RE: How about making OpenTrak part of APRS SPEC?
63. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
64. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
65. Re: Sky Diamond 6 landing site prediction
66. Re: Worthy???
67. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
68. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
69. Re: OPENtrack incompatibilities
70. Re:  Solar tetroon Sky Diamond - signal loss????
71. Re: TNC vs PID
72. OPENtrack incompatibilities
73. Re:  Solar tetroon Sky Diamond - signal loss????
74. Re:  Solar tetroon Sky Diamond - signal loss????
75. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
76. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
77. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
78. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
79. Re: OPENtrack incompatibilities
80. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
81. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
82. RE: How about making OpenTrak part of APRS SPEC?
83. RE: How about making OpenTrak part of APRS SPEC?
84. Re:  Solar tetroon Sky Diamond - signal loss????
85. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
86. Re: OPENtrack incompatibilities
87. Re: OPENtrack incompatibilities
88. Re: OPENtrack incompatibilities
89. Re: OPENtrack incompatibilities
90. Re:  Solar tetroon Sky Diamond - signal loss????
91. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
92. Re: TNC vs PID
93. Re: 30 Meter Policing needed.
94. Re: OPENtrack incompatibilities
95. Re: OPENtrack incompatibilities
96. RE: the group...
97. Re: [ Jeff King ] Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft  right now!
98. Re: OPENtrack incompatibilities
99. Re: [ Robert Bruninga ] RE: How about making OpenTrak part  of APRS SPEC?
100. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
101. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
102. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
103. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
104. Re:  Solar tetroon Sky Diamond - signal loss????
105. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
106. Re: TNC vs PID
107. RE: How about making OpenTrak part of APRS SPEC?
108. Re: OPENtrack incompatibilities
109. Re: OPENtrack incompatibilities
110. PID filtering commands for TNC's
111. Fw: RE: How about making OpenTrak part of APRS SPEC?
112. RE: How about making OpenTrak part of APRS SPEC?
113. AX.25 / UI digi
114. Re: TNC vs PID
115. Re: [ Jeff King ] Re: [ Jeff King ] Re: Solar tetroon Sky  Diamond 6 aloft
right now!
116. Re: OPENtrack incompatibilities
117. RE: How about making OpenTrak part of APRS SPEC?
118. Re: Sky Diamond 6 landing site prediction
119. Re: Fw: RE: How about making OpenTrak part of APRS SPEC?
120. Re: TNC vs PID
121. Re: OPENtrack incompatibilities
122. Re: OPENtrack incompatibilities
123. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
124. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
125. RE: How about making OpenTrak part of APRS SPEC?
126. Re: Fw: RE: How about making OpenTrak part of APRS SPEC?
127. Re: Sky Diamond 6 landing site prediction
128. RE: How about making OpenTrak part of APRS SPEC?
129. Re: OPENtrack incompatibilities
130. Re:  Solar tetroon Sky Diamond - signal loss????
131. Re: TNC vs PID
132. RE: How about making OpenTrak part of APRS SPEC?
133. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
134. The new MicroTrak project based on the SMT TinyTrak3!
135. Re: OPENtrack incompatibilities
136. Re: OPENtrack incompatibilities
137. Fw: RE: How about making OpenTrak part of APRS SPEC?
138. Re:  Solar tetroon Sky Diamond - signal loss????
139. Re:  Solar tetroon Sky Diamond - signal loss????
140. RE: How about making OpenTrak part of APRS SPEC?
141. RE: How about making OpenTrak part of APRS SPEC?
142. OPENtrack verus APRS format example
143. Re: The new MicroTrak project based on the SMT TinyTrak3!
144. Re:  Solar tetroon Sky Diamond - signal loss????
145. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
146. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
147. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
148. OPENtrack arrogance
149. Re: OPENtrack incompatibilities
150. Re: 30 Meter Policing needed.
151. RE: How about making OpenTrak part of APRS SPEC?
152. RE: the group...
153. Another tracker up and running
154. Re: Sky Diamond 6 landing site prediction
155. RE: OPENtrack verus APRS format example
156. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
157. APRS additions to the spec
158. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
159. Re: OPENtrack incompatibilities
160. RE: OPENtrack incompatibilities
161. OPENtrack APRS comparison
162. Re: OPENtrack incompatibilities
163. RE: OPENtrack verus APRS format example
164. OPENtrack PID complaints
165. Too many personalities
166. RE: OPENtrack incompatibilities
167. Re: OPENtrack incompatibilities
168. BS
169. Re: TNC vs PID
170. RE: Fw: RE: How about making OpenTrak part of APRS SPEC?
171. RE: The new MicroTrak project based on the SMT TinyTrak3!
172. Re:  Solar tetroon Sky Diamond - signal loss????
173. Re:  Solar tetroon Sky Diamond - signal loss????
174. Re:  Solar tetroon Sky Diamond - signal loss????
175. Re: OPENtrack incompatibilities
176. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
177. Compressed posits with wx data
178. Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
179. Re: OPENtrack incompatibilities
180. RE: How about making OpenTrak part of APRS SPEC?
181. RE: APRS additions to the spec
182. RE: OPENtrack verus APRS format example
183. Re: OPENtrack incompatibilities

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@opentrac.org>
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 15:30:51 -0700
X-Message-Number: 1

>Have you done any tests with the Kenwoods? From our past experiences, I bet
they
>do not handle it gracefully...

I thought they only worked with regular APRS TOCALLs.  Is there anything
that's NOT a valid ALTNET?  I'd be happy to change the TOCALL being used.

>What sort of sanity filter? Certainly some filtering is pretty easy, some of
>those reports parse out wildly, like a latitude of -261 degrees. However, many
>of them are real lat/lons. Do you go to a state-dependent filter, where say

No need for keeping state.  It'd actually be very difficult to make an
OpenTRAC packet that didn't contain a lot of values in the range of 1 to 30
or so, which you'd never see in any valid APRS packet.  If your Base91 code
is just subtracting the ASCII value for '!', yeah, you're going to have a
problem.  Just scan it for non-printable ASCII, throw it out if any is found
(except for the one valid non-printable character), parse it, and throw it
out if the lat/lon is invalid.

Scott
N1VG

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
From:     Jeff King <jeff@aerodata.net>
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 23:56:56 -0400
X-Message-Number: 2

Wow, some serious reality checking going on here.

On Thu,  3 Jun 2004 22:21:12 -0400, Steve Dimse wrote:
>On 6/3/04 at 8:58 PM Wes Johnston <wes@johnston.net> sent:
>
>>Steve, does this mean that you invented a system and now no one
>>else can play unless they follow your rules?  
>
>Bob, myself, and the other early shapers of APRS created a system,
>and then we codified the rules, the APRS spec.

Almost to a tee, folks forget a key component of the APRS SPEC. It is the 
called the APRS-WG charter, and defines the rules of the game on how changes 
are adopted to this spec:

ftp://ftp.tapr.org/aprssig/aprsspec/announcements/APRSWG_charter.pdf

You can't have the spec without the charter, as it defines ground rules, 
rules which more often then not, have been conviently ignored.

>Instead, the creators of opentrack chose a mechanism that is
>incompatible with APRS, where a packet can have too meanings
>different in the two different systems.

And why do you think this is? I think it is because the APRS-WG charter is 
not being followed, which DOES allow extensions to APRS, yet it is not 
happening. The APRS charter SPECIFICALLY ALLOWS what Scott is doing, that is, 
revisions to the specification. Read it Steve, you signed it.

>It is perfectly fine that they chose this path, but in making the
>choice, they knowingly made themselves incompatible with APRS. Now,
>they want everyone to change for them.

They? They? They? Us vs. them perhaps? You'd rather tear APRS apart at the 
seems then admit someone besides yourself might have a better idea. Get over 
it and stop being a ball and chain on the progress of APRS.

>Look, there is a basketball league near me. If I want to play, I
>agree to play by their rules.

Right, and that IS EXACTLY WHY OPENTRAK exists. You and Bob want APRS to 
remain forever static and conviently "forget" the very document both you 
signed and agreed to. It is called the APRS-WG charter. 

Someone is not following the rules, but it certainly isn't OPENTRAK.

>The APRS Spec is the APRS rule book.

As is the APRS-WG charter. They go hand in hand. You can't conviently forget 
one without the other. Otherwise, APRS WILL NEVER EVOLVE.

Is this what you really want perhaps??

>Opentrack is not compatible with the rule book.

The problem with that statment is the rule book is being changed on a day by 
day basis. You either follow the rules, or you don't. You can convenitly 
forgot them one day, and the next day remember them, as your whim suites you. 
                                           
>No one is saying people can't deveop opentrack, no one is
>saying people can't use opentrack. All I am saying is opentrack
>should not be on 144.39.

Why not? 

>it is not APRS.

Well, that is the point isn't it? It is better. And under the charter of the 
APRS-WG, it could be adopted as part of APRS.

But, you either get it or you don't. Debating that won't solve anything.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@3xf.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 20:57:14 -0700
X-Message-Number: 3

>Are you denying there are textual representations of packets in opentrack that
>have a completely different meaning in APRS?

They should have NO meaning in APRS.  I've already shown you that it's
impossible to assemble a packet including either the position or comment
elements that fits the format of ANY APRS message.  I doubt you could make
one that's valid at all, using ANY of the currently defined elements.

>Are you denying that as it exists now, there are no opentrack packets that
could
>be transmitted on 144.39 and be interpreted with an incorrect meaning by some
>APRS users?

As I said, the only place we've seen that happen so far is FindU.

Scott
N1VG

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Balloon and Aircraft Paths
From:     Jeff King <jeff@aerodata.net>
Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 00:13:14 -0400
X-Message-Number: 4

On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 20:31:44 -0400, Robert Bruninga wrote:

>The RULE IS:  At altitude where more than a few digis can hear you
>at the same time:
>
>*  Use a path of only one WIDE * 

Well, when my teacher in class told me a RULE, I always asked "why"?

Why would you use a WIDE at all on a airborne station? Being most airborne 
stations have a effective radius greater then 100 miles, it seems a WIDE with 
a ~12 mile radius wouldn't help much, and all you end up effective doing is 
keying EACH AND EVERY WIDE in a 200 mile diameter circle, for NO GAIN.

So, why do you suggest this? I mean, you might have a reason, I'm just asking 
to what it is.

Thanks

-Jeff

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@3xf.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 21:21:25 -0700
X-Message-Number: 5

>144.200, the SSB calling channel. If you run a non APRS function on
>144.39 and cause disruption, would that not risk potentially invoking
>the wrath of Riley?

If you think it's that serious an issue, ask him.  OpenTRAC is perfectly
capable of coexisting.  It certainly fits the spirit of the APRS channel
allocation a lot better than 'voice alert', and we've heard that promoted
here to no end.

OpenTRAC presents a very minimal load on the system, and so far we've seen
no undesired operation because of it, save for a single website that
improperly parses mistakenly gated packets, and even that only impacts the
station that CHOSE to run the protocol in the first place.

Development of the protocol can not happen in a vacuum.  We can not
construct a nationwide digipeater network as a test bed.  We can, however,
make use of the existing digipeater network, completely within established
specifications and protocols, with little to no impact on 'normal' use of
that network.

>Back in the heyday of packet, we had very good band plans and agreements
>that segregated different types of packet uses. Keyboard contact on one
>frequency; dxcluster on another; bbs systems on several; tcp/ip on
>another. These uses were incompatible most of the time. We all played

Exactly, they're incompatible - different types of channel utilization,
different requirements on latency, different packets sizes, and so on.  Not
so with APRS and OpenTRAC - their usage of the network resources at this
point is essentially identical, save for the fact that OpenTRAC can present
the same information using less bandwidth.

I'll do everything I can from my end to keep from causing problems with
anyone else.  I'll run some tests on the Kantronics PID setting and start
trying to educate IGate sysops about the problem.  FindU, of course, I can't
do anything about.  The simplest solution is to filter the OPNTRK to-call.
Steve says he won't do that because it violates the spec, so it seems like
the best course would be to fix the parser to FOLLOW the spec exactly, and
reject invalid packets - we've already shown that OpenTRAC packets will
never make valid APRS packets.  Implementing that fix is entirely up to
Steve.  I understand it will take some work, but as someone pointed out
Jim's parser works properly already - the source code is freely available
and could serve as a template to get him started.

Scott
N1VG

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
From:     Jeff King <jeff@aerodata.net>
Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 00:28:10 -0400
X-Message-Number: 6

On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 22:33:55 -0400, Ernie Howard wrote:
>Scott and other pro-opentrack ops,

>If you run a non APRS
>function on 144.39 and cause disruption, would that not risk
>potentially invoking the wrath of Riley?

Discounting the fact that Riley wouldn't have issue one with OpenTrak on 
144.39, EXACTLY what protocol disruption did you notice on 144.39?

Please don't confuse people puffing their chest out on the SIG with actual 
problems. 

But answer my question... what protocol problem did you observe with your own 
eyes on 144.39?


>Back in the heyday of packet, we had very good band plans and
>agreements that segregated different types of packet uses. Keyboard
>contact on one frequency; dxcluster on another; bbs systems on
>several; tcp/ip on another.

Right, so the MSYS, FBB, W0RLI PBBS's each had a distinct frequency? 
Nationwide, was MSYS exclusive on 145.03, FBB on 145.05 and W0RLI on 145.07?

No, of course not, that would be silly. But to suggest that OpenTrac is 
somehow incompatible with APRS is the same. From a physical channel access 
method, OpenTrac is IDENTICAL to APRS. As was demonstrated today, they are 
transparent tp each other.

This whole debate reminds me of the separate but equal laws from the 1950's. 
Yes, OpenTrak is a different "color" then APRS, but both have the same guts 
and can get along just fine if you give them a chance, and don't let your 
prejudices color your judgement.

>We all played nice and got along, except for a few who marched
>to their own tune to the detriment of all others. They got lid
>listed out of the networks until they figured out the benefit of
>following the plans.

Fair enough. So what actual problem did you observe today with OpenTrak 
protocol problems? Not something you heard from someone else, but actual 
problems you observed. THAT is what will help.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re:  Solar tetroon Sky Diamond - signal loss????
From: "Jason Rausch" <ke4nyv@hamhud.net>
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 23:28:25
X-Message-Number: 7

No offense, but good!  That Balloon has been locking up my HamHUD II all 
day long, constantly!  There are some vicious packets causing it to lock 
up.  Just about one out of evey 2 or 3 packets was from the balloon.

Jason KE4NYV
www.ke4nyv.com
RPC Electronics
www.ke4nyv.com/rpc

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@3xf.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 21:28:31 -0700
X-Message-Number: 8

>What about all of us who have old KPC 3+ 's or run aprsd which pretty much
>precludes running a TNC in KISS mode.

Say WHAT?  I ran aprsd WITH a KPC-3 (not plus), ROM version 6.something, in
KISS mode, with no problems.  I've since upgraded to the newest firmware
available, but it didn't actually affect anything in KISS mode.

>I thought in the APRS spec there was an APRS message type for non-standard
>messages ? That seems the appropriate way to experimental posit and
telemetry
>formats.

There is.  See my previous message about why this wasn't an option.

>The true way to fix APRS short comings is to develop a separate more robust
>layer 3 protocol. That helps APRS remain true to its "tactical" roots, but
>reduces (I'm not going to say eliminate) the traffic issues we have now.

That's part of what we're trying to do.  Jeroen Vreeken, PE1RXQ, has already
proposed a set of routing elements and written a digipeater implementation.
Wes Johnson has proposed another routing protocol as well.  Note that we're
NOT doing that on 144.39.  On the existing UI digi network we're only
testing the protocol's vocabulary, not network-layer functions.

In fact, what you just said has been the primary goal of the project all
along.

Scott
N1VG

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Balloon lost    was RE:  Solar tetroon Sky Diamond - signal loss????
From: "Rochte, Robert" <rrochte@gpacademy.org>
Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 00:37:40 -0400
X-Message-Number: 9

>Its 0143z and KC8UCH-11 has had no posit for over 14 minutes. 

The tracker apparently froze on the way down (somewhat expected) and did not
recover before reaching the ground.

73,
Robert
KC8UCH

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: RE:  Solar tetroon Sky Diamond - signal loss????
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@3xf.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 21:46:58 -0700
X-Message-Number: 10

Yeah, seems to be off the air.  Though it looks like a couple of objects
were sent out, maybe?

Robert, did that tracker have the standard regulator or the AN77L05 LDO
version?  The LDO version should be good down to 5.3 volts, but the standard
one drops out around 6.7, which looks like what might have happened here.
I'd have thought a lithium battery would easily last all day, though.

I guess this is a good argument for the power save mode I've been thinking
about.  The OpenTracker draws around 9 ma at 12 volts, which I think is
roughly the same as the TinyTrak.  I'm pretty confident I can add an option
to cut that by 50%, at the cost of some transmit interval accuracy.

Scott
N1VG

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re:  Solar tetroon Sky Diamond - signal loss????
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@3xf.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 21:49:08 -0700
X-Message-Number: 11

Locking up as in causing it to freeze, or just keeping it busy with
excessive packets?  If it's freezing because of parsing problems, I'll be
happy to help debug.

Scott
N1VG

-----Original Message-----

No offense, but good!  That Balloon has been locking up my HamHUD II all
day long, constantly!  There are some vicious packets causing it to lock
up.  Just about one out of evey 2 or 3 packets was from the balloon.

Jason KE4NYV
www.ke4nyv.com
RPC Electronics
www.ke4nyv.com/rpc

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: RE: Balloon lost was RE:  Solar tetroon Sky Diamond - signal loss????
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@3xf.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 22:07:28 -0700
X-Message-Number: 12

>The tracker apparently froze on the way down (somewhat expected) and did not
>recover before reaching the ground.

You said there was a +9 C calibration error you forgot to enter, right?  So
payload temperature was around -30 C.  Do you have known failure points for
the GPS and radio?  I've taken OpenTrackers down to -70 C without any
problems, but that's outside of the official specs of almost every part on
the board.

Scott
N1VG

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Modes and Frequencies
From:     Jeff King <jeff@aerodata.net>
Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 02:35:33 -0400
X-Message-Number: 13

Reality check

On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 21:00:18 -0400, Robert Bruninga wrote:

>Yes, BUT IT IS COMMON KNOWLEDGE FOR THE LAST 26 YEARS THAT TNC's
>dont all consistently implement the AX.25 protocol!

AX.25 was created in 1982.  2004 - 1982 = 22 years.

>Come on.  Be a gentlemen.  Dont trash everyone else and say it
>shouldnt happen...

Two people have reported problems.  2 = everyone? 

>WHEN EVERYONE TELLS YOU IT WONT WORK.

Who is "EVERYONE"?  Why won't it work? What problems does it cause?

Be specific.


>Please do not plan on using non APRS protocols on the national APRS
>channel.  It just causes problems and I dont have time to try to fix
>eveyrone that comes along...

Being you are in the Washington DC area, you should have been exposed to 4+ 
hours of packets. Please detail the problems it caused you (besides feeling 
threatened).

Thanks

-Jeff

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: OpenTrak & APRS -was- Re: Solar tetroon Sky  Diamond 6 aloft right now!
From: Bill Herrmann <bherrman@spro.net>
Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 00:48:04 -0600
X-Message-Number: 14

At 06:41 PM 6/3/2004 -0400, Steve Dimse wrote:
>There are hundreds of IGate operators, every one of them not using KISS would
>need to change, in some cases that may mean hardware costs. Every person 
>on RF also would need to switch to KISS.

I've seen several people suggest KISS mode as the answer to client programs 
being able to tell what kind of packet they're getting. Let me point out 
that KISS mode isn't an option for all of us. (i.e. I have a 3 port TNC 
running radically different things on each of the ports and doing some 
gating. KISS mode isn't a valid option unless I want to move backwards)

>I really do not see why this is such an issue. Opentrack is not APRS, it is
>clearly incompatible with APRS. It is great if some people want to create
>something new, but can't they do that without interfering with a successful,
>working system? What is wrong with setting up a network that will not 
>interfere
>with those people that just want to use APRS as it exists now?

Maybe instead of taking the giant step to Opentrak we need an intermediate 
step that essentially packages Opentrak packets in valid APRS packets. 
Isn't there an experimental APRS type? Couldn't that be used as a prefix 
for an Opentrak packet if Opentrak is being used on an APRS network? No, it 
isn't as clean a design but it's a good way to coexist without having 
today's SNAFU and without having to build a complete duplicate network.

Bill 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: TNC vs PID -was- Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6  aloft right now!
From: Bill Herrmann <bherrman@spro.net>
Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 00:41:26 -0600
X-Message-Number: 15

At 03:50 PM 6/3/2004 -0700, Scott Miller wrote:
>I still stand by my assertion that properly implemented TNCs won't have a 
>problem, and even those that do shouldn't cause any disruption to others.

So, how does the TNC know which PID to accept and which to reject?

See my other message for why KISS isn't an option for all stations.

Bill  

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: OPNTRK packets and exciting position reports from Findu  RE: [apr
ssig] Re: Solar tetroon Sky Diamond 6 aloft right now!
From: Curt Mills <archer@eskimo.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 22:48:23 -0700 (PDT)
X-Message-Number: 16

On Thu, 3 Jun 2004, Scott Miller wrote:

>I don't see how you're getting valid positions.  Base91 starts at what, 33
>decimal?

Base91 posits always start with '/'.  Of course that can come after
a timestamp also.

-- 
Curt, WE7U.                             archer at eskimo dot com
http://www.eskimo.com/~archer
  Lotto:  A tax on people who are bad at math. - unknown
Windows:  Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates. - WE7U.
The world DOES revolve around me:  I picked the coordinate system!"

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re:  Solar tetroon Sky Diamond - signal loss????
From: Curt Mills <archer@eskimo.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 22:58:54 -0700 (PDT)
X-Message-Number: 17

On Thu, 3 Jun 2004, Jason Rausch wrote:

>No offense, but good!  That Balloon has been locking up my HamHUD II all
>day long, constantly!  There are some vicious packets causing it to lock
>up.  Just about one out of evey 2 or 3 packets was from the balloon.

But isn't that code open-source, so it can be changed easily?  If so, I
expect you guys will have fixes in there very quickly so it doesn't happen
next time.

-- 
Curt, WE7U.                             archer at eskimo dot com
http://www.eskimo.com/~archer
  Lotto:  A tax on people who are bad at math. - unknown
Windows:  Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates. - WE7U.
The world DOES revolve around me:  I picked the coordinate system!"

----------------------------------------------------------------------







Read previous mail | Read next mail


 12.07.2025 03:22:43lGo back Go up