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ZL3AI > APRDIG 22.05.04 23:08l 306 Lines 12522 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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To : APRDIG@WW
TAPR APRS Special Interest Group Digest for Saturday, May 15, 2004.
1. GPS18 (was Re: laptop)
2. RE>USB micro TNC
3. RE: Conversation with Kenwood at Dayton
4. Re: New into APRS - what to use?
5. RE: Conversation with Kenwood at Dayton
6. Re: New into APRS - what to use?
7. Re: Conversation with Kenwood at Dayton
8. RE: Conversation with Kenwood at Dayton
9. RE: Conversation with Kenwood at Dayton
10. RE: Conversation with Kenwood at Dayton
11. RE: Conversation with Kenwood at Dayton
12. Re: New into APRS - what to use?
13. Re: laptop
14. RE: Conversation with Kenwood at Dayton
15. Re: New into APRS - what to use?
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Subject: GPS18 (was Re: laptop)
From: "Keith - VE7GDH" <ve7gdh@rac.ca>
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 22:38:10 -0700
X-Message-Number: 1
On 14/05/2004 1:46:42 PM, Jeff King (jeff@aerodata.net) wrote:
>Garmin GPS-18 will be shipping with USB support.
The USB version of the GPS18 doesn't spit out NMEA 0183... only Garmin
format. The two serial versions support NMEA. Might be handy if you
intended to use it for APRS.
www.garmin.com/products/gps18/
73 es cul - Keith VE7GDH
--
"I may be lost but I know exactly where I am"
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Subject: RE>USB micro TNC
From: "\(SV2AGW\)George Rossopoulos" <sv2agw@raag.org>
Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 12:32:24 +0300
X-Message-Number: 2
Hi
USB TNC will be available during May.
We had some production problems, It has a 4 Layer pcb and is surface mount.
The source code will be available so anyone can write software for it.
Among others will have also Live Update. You will be able to update the
flash on line.
More when ready..........
73
(SV2AGW)George Rossopoulos
sv2agw@elcom.gr
www.elcom.gr/sv2agw
+306932465216
George Rossopoulos
Nikanoros 59
54250,Thessaloniki
Greece
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Subject: RE: Conversation with Kenwood at Dayton
From: "Mike Yetsko" <myetsko@insydesw.com>
Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 07:43:29 -0400
X-Message-Number: 3
>(3) I asked directly about flash memory and interfacing issues (serial
>ports). The fellow I talked to said that the product development team is
>well aware of the problem of the vanishing serial ports in today's PCs. In
>fact, he noted that his new Sony Vaio desktop computer doesn't have any
>RS-232 ports either. He said that Kenwood land mobile radios are starting
>to use USB, thus USB should start appearing in amateur products soon. As
>for flash updates of the firmware, as well as the suggestion of opening up
>access to the hardware for user-written software, they are concerned about
>warranty issues -- what happens if somebody uploads something that breaks
>the radio? We discussed technical options around this issue for a couple of
>minutes.
While I agree that USB is the 'way of the future', I am apprehensive about
a change to the 'latest and greatest' without considering all the
ramifications of that change.
For one thing, if you have USB on a computer, you can always (and easily)
get to a serial interface. But if you have a laptop with serial, you
CANNOT easily or cheaply get to USB. It's just too advanced an animal to
get to on laptops or even PCs that don't support it to begin with.
So, if you were to design a 'product' and were deciding on which way to go,
would it be USB, serial, or both?
If you make your product serial, ANYONE can get to it.
If you make your product USB, ONLY the people with USB can get to it.
If you make your product both, then there has to be a serious performance
issue with USB to make it worth the extra expense to do both.
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Subject: Re: New into APRS - what to use?
From: Curt Mills <archer@eskimo.com>
Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 07:53:02 -0700 (PDT)
X-Message-Number: 4
On Fri, 14 May 2004 blairhogg@comcast.net wrote:
>What recommendations does this group have for someone wanting to
>get into APRS, or where on the net are good places to find info?
>I'v etried search engines, and have seen many of the major sites
>but am still unsure about equipment.
http://www.eskimo.com/~archer/aprs_capabilities.html
>We have been using APRS as a side activity in our fox hunts, so
>that the fox can see some of the hunters and their locations. So
>far we have had only one APRS station reporting during the hunt. I
>would like to put in a semi-permanent APRS station in the car so I
>don't have to worry about setting it up every time, but don't know
>which way to go.
Please list what operating system you intend to use. That limits which
APRS programs will work on it.
Also, do you expect to have/need DF'ing capabilities, as in being able to
have some/all on channel be sending DF bearings, or are you just interested
in seeing where the mobiles/portables are as the search progresses? If
it's a competition, I'd think the latter, as anyone transmitting bearings
would be helping the other teams.
If you're doing serious transmitter hunting work, then the cooperative
DF'ing can really help.
The answers to those questions might also affect your choice of program.
>I have a portable GPS, an e-Trax Vista, but I'd rather not commit
>it to APRS. I've seen non-display GPS receivers - Delorme
>Earthmate, etc., and some assembled board units - Motorola Oncore
>GT+. Any recommendations for a low-cost unit?
>
>The TinyTrak3 looks like the best solution for the TNC, are there
>any others?
That's a transmit-only TNC. If you're expecting to see positions from
others, that one won't work. If you want one of the best all-around TNC's
for APRS use, consider the Kantronics KPC-3+ (not the KPC-3, the '+' is
important).
Other less-expensive possibilities:
AGWPE, which uses the soundcard interface as your TNC.
TNC-X, which is a TX/RX TNC kit.
Many older TNC's will work just fine as well, if you have a computer
connected to them in order to perform the APRS functions.
>What about the transmitter? The TT3 also comes packaged with a
>transmitter, which lacks a receiver to prevent transmitting when
>the frequency is busy.
No, you're thinking of the pockettracker now, which has a TT-3 and a
transmitter built-in. The TT-3 itself is just a transmit-only TNC. I own
some TT-2's and a PocketTracker.
>Is it better to use an HT or mobile rig? Or
>just not worry about the frequency busy status?
That's almost flame-bait... ;-) We'll see what kind of responses you get
on that one.
It depends on the application. For SAR, we're considering using some
pockettrackers. Those are low-power, but even if they were 5W-10W, many of
the areas we deal with wouldn't have the option of getting into a
digipeater, at least not until we crested a ridge. If we find that we
either cause a problem for others or receive too much interference from
others, we'll just switch to an alternate frequency.
Depending on what area you're in, you may have excellent coverage with a 5W
handheld (hopefully with an external antenna). Down around Seattle I think
that's the case. I'm north of there by one county, and things are
different up here. In these canyons/hills I need high-power to get out. I
started out with 25W and a mag-mount 1/4 wave. I've since switched to 50W
and a permanent-mount antenna. I switch between a 5/8 wave and a 1/4 wave
depending on what I'm doing. 1/4 wave gets out of the canyons better due
to it's higher radiation angle. If I'm heading down toward Seattle I try
to knock down the power.
In all fairness it may be the hidden transmitter problem that is affecting
me more these days, at least for my normal commute. It could be that the
higher power is just overriding others that are at a lower strength into
the repeater. We have so many blocking hills/mountains around here that
it's a real problem. The frequency is awfully busy if you get to a high
point where you can hear for some distance.
--
Curt, WE7U. archer at eskimo dot com
http://www.eskimo.com/~archer
Lotto: A tax on people who are bad at math. - unknown
Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates. - WE7U.
The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!"
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Subject: RE: Conversation with Kenwood at Dayton
From: Jeff King <jeff@aerodata.net>
Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 13:38:16 -0400
X-Message-Number: 5
Phil:
First of all, I want to thank you for doing this. Amateur radio
manufacturers need to know that we, as ham operators, need to be part of
the process and do care about what is being sold to us.
On 05/14/04, "Phil Reed <preed@dnaco.net>" wrote:
>I had a chance to talk with one of the Kenwood product reps (sorry, I
>didn't get his name) today at Dayton,
....
>(3) I asked directly about flash memory and interfacing issues (serial
>ports).
....
>As
>for flash updates of the firmware, as well as the suggestion of opening up
>access to the hardware for user-written software, they are concerned about
>warranty issues -- what happens if somebody uploads something that breaks
>the radio? We discussed technical options around this issue for a couple of
>minutes.
This really is self evident if they are at all paying attention to the
market place. My suggestion, is go back, find out this guys name, and let
him know about all the 802.11x products that are flash upgradable. If you
know what the LinkSys WRT54G wireless router is, let him know that
LinkSys's "decision' to open the software up to consumers, caused sales of
the product to INCREASE because consumers could participate in the process
and in doing so, added many new features that LinkSys hadn't gotten around
to. It was a win win for both consumers as well as LinkSys.
Worst case, Kenwood puts a anti-tamper sticker on the case of the radio or
flash port, and you take your chances, with regards to warranty issues.
>(4) Kenwood still considers the APRS radios in their "hot seller" category,
>even if they are getting "long in the tooth" (the rep's words).
Opening up the Kenwoods firmware to ham development would considerably
shorten that tooth and extend the products lifetime. We still have TNC2's
and clones, going on 20 YEARS OLD, being used in state of the art APRS
digi's using the firmware UI-VIEW. Yet none of the hams using them have
made them from scratch, they purchased the hardware and later upgraded the
firmware. And even today, hams are buying COTS MFJ TNC's (TNC2 clones) for
this very purpose. >>>20 years is a long tooth!<<<<<
Bottom line, this would only enhance Kenwood's revenue stream on the product.
Since almost every manufacturer that has a fluid spec or target, has been
allowing end user firmware upgrades now going on almost 20 years, I'm really
starting to think this is a cultural thing. The person you spoke with....
where they a Japanese national or one of the american reps? For as long as
this has been beat on the SIG, I'm starting to think we need to go to the
source and apply some education. It might take some time. It needs to be
expressed this is not a threat to the revenue stream at all, simply due to
the fact that the "hardware" is almost impossible for the average ham to
construct. Even if it wasn't (a thru hole HT the size of a lunchbox), it
wouldn't be cost effective for the average ham to build. Hence, they will
always sell product, and opening the firmware up will prolong and enhance
that revenue stream.
A no brainer to the average American business man, so there must be a
disconnect here. I cannot emphasis what a long term marketing mistake Kenwood
has made here. Opening that radio up to end user updates/development would
change the face of APRS and IMHO, open up a whole new wave of development and
excitement in APRS.
-Jeff wb8wka
P.S.
>If anybody else happens through the booth, snag a rep and mention what
>you'd like to see in the radio. They will go back to the office on Monday
>and digest the buzz they got from the show floor, so everybody who talks up
>the radio (even if you're discussing what you think ought to be improved)
>will help product management keep it on their radar.
YES! and if I was in Dayton, I'd do this myself but I'm not :-(
P.P.S. get some e-mail addresses as I'd love to forward this to Kenwood
--
Jeff King, jeff@aerodata.net on 5/15/2004
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