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ZL3AI > APRDIG 13.05.04 09:47l 247 Lines 9567 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: Re: Compromise proposal (was: Re: The APRS-WG and spec improvements.)
From: "Laurie - g6isy" <g6isy@dsl.pipex.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 20:45:09 +0100
X-Message-Number: 15
Henk de Groot wrote:
>Hello Laurie,
>
>>Our mapping agency does not plan to issue maps to WGS84.
>
>That doesn't surprise me, the Brits have a long histroy when it comes
>to dealing with international standards...
Its not a matter of not wanting to use an international standard.
In fact, as I said, our datum is defined as a transform from WGS84.
Its a practical matter of our bit of the world not being a very good fit to
the WGS84 geoid and continental drift.
The European land mass is moving relative to WGS84 at a considerable rate.
If we were to issue precision maps using WGS84 then they would be wrong
almost as soon as they were issued. Correcting for the drift problem is
part of the reason for maintaining a different datum.
>>I hope this shows our problem more clearly.
>
>I understood this already, I hope you understand the compromise which
>gives both sides what they want without a sacrifice to compatibility,
I understand what you are trying to do. I just wish some of the GPS
manufactures did.
If we could select a different display datum to the NEMA data we wouldn't
be having this discussion :-)
Anyway, I think I have made all the points that I wanted to, so I'll shut
up now.
73 Laurie - G6ISY
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Subject: Re: More Positionless Weather!!!!
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 15:48:40 -0400
X-Message-Number: 16
>>>Steve Dimse <k4hg@tapr.org> 4/23/04 8:43:41 PM >>>
>>Oh no! Not more positionless weather data. Gosh can
>>we never get away from that abomination! ARGH!!!
>
>That's your opinion, others look at the fact that there is
>no need to send a position report on a fixed station
>every 5 minutes...
Yes there is! WEATHER without knowing where it is is absolutely useless..
Sure it is just fine for arm-chair internet collection of long term data,
but that is NOT what the APRS network is designed to do. No packet in
APRS should be dependent on -another- separeate packet before it has any
value.
Lets say you have a 50% channel. And you only send the POSITION once every
30 minutes. Then half the time you have to wait AN HOUR for VALID
weather. Sure you get a WX update every 5 minutes but it is USELESS until
you get a position.
That is ludicrous.
>>LET ME SAY WHY: APRS is a real-time system. It
>>assumes that ALL packets contain COMPLETE data.
>This is ridiculous. In that case, a position report should
>also contain the status message, any pending messages,
>all active objects being sent by a station, telemetry
>values, and every other packet type!
No, I would hope you would understand the differnce. Weater reports
are-of-absolutely-no-value-unless-you know-where-they-are! Status, and
messages have inherent value and are not normally position dependent...
>>This is because the network cannot be relied on to deliver
>>all packets all the . So when you do get a valid packet,
>>you want it to contain everything you need to
>>understand it!
>
>Again, then why is position not part of a telemetry packet or
>a status packet. You argument makes no sense, both of
>these are position dependent, and yet you did not include
>position in these (except for the Mic-E).
Because as I said, WX must have position or it is meaningless. Status,
Messages and Telemetry usually stll have value without a position. If the
position is cricical to its meaing, then that is why APRS has the position
COMMENT field...
>You are right, the network cannot be depended upon to
>deliver every packet. However, whith VERY rare exceptions,
>weather stations do not move. One report at anytime within
>the memory of the station is adequate.
Ah but USERS MOVE... and Providing REAL-TIME information to HAMS within
range is the purpose of APRS. And APRS becomes even more valuable during
emergencies or situatinos where new people are arriving, and most people
have no clue where the WX stations are. In one hour I can drive all the
way through an entire county and be CLUELESS what the WX is doing because I
AM NOT LOCAL AND HAVE NO CLUE where the K4HG weather is.
It is just plain ludicrous to be transmitting WX without position. The APRS
weather report was designed from DAY ONE with all WEATHER in the position
report. Its all water under the dam as to why we still have this
positionless weather, but we need to be phasing it out....
>The only abomination is that you allowed your opinion to
>affect your role in providing information to the Kenwood
>engineers, so they were never informedr about any of the
>other weather formats that at that time constituted the
>majority of weather stations.
No, they were fully aware of them, but they said they had no room to put in
the 9 totally different parsers. for all the different WX formats that were
then on the market. The choice was NO WEATHER AT ALL, or to do just the
APRS standard one. It didn't take me long to help them make that decision!
And that has nothing to do with position. As I have clearly shown before,
the OVERHEAD of sending a separate positon report once every 30 minutes is
about equal to the overhead of sending it every time. So why not send it
every time so that anyone-anywhere-at-anytime that gets just a single WX
packet then also gets the position information so that he knows WHERE the
WX is.
It is very frustrating to be driving down the highway and see a WX report
on my Mobile, yet, be totally clueless where it is. And then to get that
same packet 5 times as I drive though an entire county and NEVER know
where it is!
But if I receive the COMPELTE format, I only need to receive one successful
packet and the Kenwood calculates the RANGE and BEARING and displays
instantly that the weather might be 11.5 miles to the northwest of me... on
a bearing of 334 degrees.... Very useful info...
de Wb4APR, Bob
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Subject: Re: Objects and D7 are easy.
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 15:55:11 -0400
X-Message-Number: 17
Thats what many people missunderstand. The OBJECT format is nothing but
the standard APRS Position format shifted RIGHT 9 places to allow for a
separate name from the TNC's MYcall. So on receipt, after pulling out the
name, the positino format is identical. So you can do anything with an
Object that a station can do...
Bob
>>>"Brian Riley (maillist)" <n1bq_list@wulfden.org> 4/23/04 9:06:40 PM >>>
On 4/23/04 8:42 PM, "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu> wrote:
>>>>"Brian B. Riley (N1BQ)" Asked:
>>Is there a way to create an Object on a D7? Short of a whole computer hooked,
>>or maybe an 'object generator' programmed into a PIC?
>>
>Sure, I do it all the time. Usually for TRAFFIC. So I keep my STATUS #3
>preloaded with something like "TRAFFIC Problem"
>
>When you are in an UNEXPECTED traffic jam, then all you do (and you dont
>have much else to do <grin>)
>
>1) just select MENU, MYCALL. Change your MYCALL to SLOW (I add a numeral to
>make it different each time if there are others already on the air).
>
>2) Press the BCON button to transmit it. ANd wait for confirmation when you
>see "MY PACKET". You might want to send it a second time to be sure everyone
>got it.
>
>THATS IT! Now, then re-select MYCALL and restore your call. Then the OBJECT
>stays right where it was for ALL to see...
OK, I see this. But isn't this more accurately a 'pseudo-object?' When an
OBJECT is created on an APRS client program, doesn't it go out formatted in
some way that indicates its an OBJECT and who really is the source of the
object?
--
Cheers ... 73 de brian, n1bq, underhill center, vt, usa
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Subject: Re: ohhh and ahhh value.. text to speech
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 15:58:07 -0400
X-Message-Number: 18
Both of my next satelites will have this. ANDE and RAFT have packet to
speech modules. Thus you can send a packet that says "Go Navy, Beat Army"
and the satelite will say
"W3ADO says go navy beat army."
Bob
>>>Jeff King <jeff@aerodata.net> 4/24/04 12:22:27 AM >>>
Cool part Wes
Here is an interactive demo of the chip I found:
http://www.winbond-usa.com/ttsdemo/
--
Jeff King, jeff@aerodata.net on 4/24/2004
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Subject: Re: ohhh and ahhh value.. text to speech
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 16:00:28 -0400
X-Message-Number: 19
And since we have to get Kantronics to do a special ROM for our satellites
KPC-3 to strip off the header and replace it with "CALLISGN says", we have
asked Kantronics to consider leaving the code into the KPC3 for other users
if they want to order the special ROM...
I can imagine all kinds of applications...
Bob
>>>David VanHorn <dvanhorn@cedar.net> 4/24/04 12:51:08 AM >>>
>>Ohh.. this is really slick!! This would be really slick hooked to a
>>ham hud!
Very interesting.
Speech seems to be making another comeback.
I've seen a couple of speech products recently, most phoneme based, as
this one appears to be.
I just recorded some repeater ID's with it, might try them out this
week.
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