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ZL3AI > APRDIG 12.05.04 10:43l 256 Lines 9956 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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Subj: TAPR Digest, Apr 23, 9/10
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From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: RE: More Positionless Weather!!!!
From: "Daron J. Wilson" <daron@wilson.org>
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:40:05 -0700
X-Message-Number: 53
>>>>"Daron J. Wilson" <daron@wilson.org> 4/23/04 7:02:08 PM >>>
>>As much as I like the WXTrak, we found that it wasn't
>>quite that seamless. Currently it does not transmit the
>>position and weather data in the same packet, ...
>
>Oh no! Not more positionless weather data. Gosh can
>we never get away from that abomination! ARGH!!!
>Iam truely saddend to hear this...
Maybe I should have elaborated, I believe the WXTrak sends two packets back
to back, one posit and one with weather data. I know Bob, it isn't pure,
but it is far closer than we have been we WILL get to the point either with
Byon upgrading the code or with the addition of our PIC translator to do it
correct.
I guess....my real complaint is why the compromises that allowed us to get
to this point?
>LET ME SAY WHY: APRS is a real-time system. It
>assumes that ALL packets contain COMPLETE data.
>This is because the network cannot be relied on to deliver
>all packets all the . So when you do get a valid packet,
>YOU WANT IT TO CONTAIN everything you need to
>udnerstand it!!!!!
I couldn't agree more.
>Positionless Weather is an abomination. Sure it works
>fine in fixed networks to people monitoring 24 hours a day.
>BUT THAT IS NOT APRS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! APRS is supposed
>to deliver to ANYONE who just turns on a radio,
>everything he needs immediately within one net-cycle
>time (about 10 minutes for all local data and 30 minutes
>for regional data.
That is my feeling as well. When running mobile I normally use the hamhud,
however via a serial switch I can send the data to my laptop conveniently
mounted up front and run UIView on there. Tis indeed frustrating to see
weather packets pass by in the window but not show up as an icon on the
screen since I've not gotten the position yet. Just silly.
>THIS SHOULD BE TRUE if he is just visiting or if he has
>lived there all his life. As a MOBILE APRS system, I am
>actually more concerned for the MOBILES that drive
>through or visit the area to get good WX data in just one
>packet, without having to MONITOR for an HOUR to
>find out where the WX reported IS...
>
>Oh I ache......
>
>And for a WX station that only sends its position once
>an hour you have a good chance of missing that one
>packet, so now you have to wait 2 HOURS before the
>WX data that you got only 5 minutes after arriving has
>any value...
We transmit weather here, locally every 5 minutes. As we can afford it
we're adding the WXTrak fix to our digi's to allow the kenwoods to decode
it, and get position + weather out there at a quick enough interval to be
useful.
>Please, please tell me that you are joking and that this new
>device did not make the mistake of designing to positionless
>weather!!! What an abomination!
>
>>In the mean time we are plotting a pic based solution
>>that takes weather data from any number of devices and
>>converts it into the correct format to be forced in to the
>>KPC3+ digipeater so that the transmission comes
>>out compliant. It's a fair amount of work based on many different
>>weather stations, but a worthwhile goal.
>
>I LOVE IT, I LOVE IT, I LOVE IT. Please promise me
>it will include the position in EVERY packet so that
>EVERY packet has value the INSTANT it is received!!!!!
>to anyone at any time....
Hey I'm just the idea man, I don't write code. But, that is the intent of
our project, and if that is what the spec has in it, we'll do our best to
comply. I'm sure if there is a possible downside, someone here will point
it out.....
73 N7HQR
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Subject: Re: Objects and D7 are easy.
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 20:42:01 -0400
X-Message-Number: 54
>>>"Brian B. Riley (N1BQ)" Asked:
>Is there a way to create an Object on a D7?
>Short of a whole computer hooked, or maybe
>an 'object generator' programmed into a PIC?
Sure, I do it all the time. Usually for TRAFFIC. So I keep my STATUS #3
preloaded with something like "TRAFFIC Problem"
When you are in an UNEXPECTED traffic jam, then all you do (and you dont
have much else to do <grin>)
1) just select MENU, MYCALL. Change your MYCALL to SLOW (I add a numeral
to make it different each time if there are others already on the air).
2) Press the BCON button to transmit it. ANd wait for confirmation when
you see "MY PACKET". You might want to send it a second time to be sure
everyone got it.
THATS IT! Now, then re-select MYCALL and restore your call. Then the
OBJECT stays right where it was for ALL to see...
THis is even easier on the D700 where you can use a Program Memory PM to
have pre-loaded not only the MYCALL saying SLOW, but also the STATUS text
saying "Traffic problem"
Then when you see one, just hit PM, N and that is all there is to it. Then
PM back to normal ops...
I do this all the time so that my fellow travelers will get advance warning
about the mess I am in..
What they will see on THEIR D7 is:
SLOW1:
Traffic Problem.
Then if they select it, the D7 will show them Where it is, how far away it
is, and what direction.
What more can you ask for?
On long boring trips, I also send SMOKIE objects and other things of note
to drivers near me...
Bob
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Subject: Re: More Positionless Weather!!!!
From: Steve Dimse <k4hg@tapr.org>
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 20:43:41 -0400
X-Message-Number: 55
On 4/23/04 at 8:26 PM Robert Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu> sent:
>>>>"Daron J. Wilson" <daron@wilson.org> 4/23/04 7:02:08 PM >>>
>>As much as I like the WXTrak, we found that it wasn't
>>quite that seamless. Currently it does not transmit the
>>position and weather data in the same packet, ...
>
>Oh no! Not more positionless weather data. Gosh can
>we never get away from that abomination! ARGH!!!
That's your opinion, others look at the fact that there is no need to send
a position report on a fixed station every 5 minutes (or whatever interval
one chooses to send weather data.
>LET ME SAY WHY: APRS is a real-time system. It
>assumes that ALL packets contain COMPLETE data.
This is ridiculous. In that case, a position report should also contain the
status message, any pending messages, all active objects being sent by a
station, telemetry values, and every other packet type!
>This is because the network cannot be relied on to deliver
>all packets all the . So when you do get a valid packet,
>YOU WANT IT TO CONTAIN everything you need to
>udnerstand it!!!!!
Again, then why is position not part of a telemetry packet or a status
packet. You argument makes no sense, both of these are position dependent,
and yet you did not include position in these (except for the Mic-E).
You are right, the network cannot be depended upon to deliver every packet.
However, whith VERY rare exceptions, weather stations do not move. One
report at anytime within the memory of the station is adequate. Telemetry
on the other hand is often sent from mobile stations, if you wanted to put
a position in those I might not argue...
The only abomination is that you allowed your opinion to affect your role
in providing information to the Kenwood engineers, so they were never
informed about any of the other weather formats that at that time
constituted the majority of weather stations.
Steve K4HG
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Subject: RE: More Positionless Weather!!!!
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@3xf.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:56:14 -0700
X-Message-Number: 56
>pure, but it is far closer than we have been we WILL get to the point
>either with Byon upgrading the code or with the addition of our PIC
>translator to do it correct.
You guys are welcome to build on the OpenTracker hardware. It's not a PIC
(don't like the critters) but it'll do the job, plus eliminate the TNC like
the WXtrak will.
I've been planning on writing weather firmware for the device all along,
it's just a matter of getting sample data (and preferably a working station)
to test with. Plus documentation, of course.
I'm willing to write the code, but what would really help me is a
prioritized list of weather station types that sould be supported, plus
clear documentation on how to interface with each one. Better yet, if
someone's already got C code for a particular station, I'll do what I can to
adapt it.
The parsing/translating code is going to have to be written one way or
another. I've got the FSK code and support stuff written already, with
hardware available now. And you'd be able to switchRiley (maillist)" <n1bq_list@wulfden.org>
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:06:40 -0400
X-Message-Number: 57
On 4/23/04 8:42 PM, "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu> wrote:
>>>>"Brian B. Riley (N1BQ)" Asked:
>>Is there a way to create an Object on a D7? Short of a whole computer hooked,
>>or maybe an 'object generator' programmed into a PIC?
>>
>Sure, I do it all the time. Usually for TRAFFIC. So I keep my STATUS #3
>preloaded with something like "TRAFFIC Problem"
>
>When you are in an UNEXPECTED traffic jam, then all you do (and you dont
>have much else to do <grin>)
>
>1) just select MENU, MYCALL. Change your MYCALL to SLOW (I add a numeral to
>make it different each time if there are others already on the air).
>
>2) Press the BCON button to transmit it. ANd wait for confirmation when you
>see "MY PACKET". You might want to send it a second time to be sure everyone
>got it.
>
>THATS IT! Now, then re-select MYCALL and restore your call. Then the OBJECT
>stays right where it wact?
--
Cheers ... 73 de brian, n1bq, underhill center, vt, usa
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