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ZL3AI > APRDIG 12.05.04 09:56l 249 Lines 10216 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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Subj: TAPR Digest, Apr 22, 5/10
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From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: Re: compatibility question
From: "Curt, WE7U" <archer@eskimo.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:20:24 -0700 (PDT)
X-Message-Number: 24
On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 wes@johnston.net wrote:
>Open trac addresses this tower of babble by making all sending stations send
>their data in the same units. Each packet has a clearly defined structure
>which even allows our client software to gracefully skip data that it does not
>know how to decode. Open trac puts the smarts and burden of uniformity in the
>sending station.
Xastir has committed to support both protocols, it's not an either/or kind
of thing.
OpenTrac is much easier to decode than APRS due to its structure, but we've
only just started our OpenTrac support. There will be more in the coming
months.
We'll continue to support whatever new developments/bugs APRS throws at us
as well...
--
Curt, WE7U archer at eskimo dot com
Arlington, WA, USA http://www.eskimo.com/~archer
"Lotto: A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown
"Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U
"The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!"
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Subject: Re: compatibility question
From: "Richard Amirault" <ramirault@erols.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 13:20:51 -0400
X-Message-Number: 25
----- Original Message -----
From: <wes@johnston.net>
Subject: [aprssig] compatibility question
(snip)
>Heck even DOS APRS is to the point that if anything new is to be added,
>something must be taken away (Bob answered Bill Gates question "who will use
>all of 64k anyway?").
That is only because Bob wants it to fit on a single floppy. I, personally,
don't see that as a valid requirement any longer.
Richard in Boston, MA, USA
N1JDU
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Subject: Re: The APRS-WG and spec improvements.
From: Jeff King <jeff@aerodata.net>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 13:47:24 -0400
X-Message-Number: 26
On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:43:01 -0400, Robert Bruninga wrote:
>>>>Jim Duncan <jdbandman@earthlink.net> 4/21/04 9:23:12 PM >>>
>>...It means, simply, that what Bob says goes...
>
>As the technical chair for the APRS-WG,
WOW.... you actually believe as a formal group the APRS-WG is still
active?!?
OK I'll call your bluff..... Will one person beside Bob admit they are a
member of the APRS-WG, that the group is still viable, active and operating
in accordance with their charter??
Bob, the problem with your continued claim the APRS-WG still exists is the
FACT a clear written charter exists which dictates the actions the APRS-WG
is supposed to take. In case you didn't notice it is at:
ftp://ftp.tapr.org/aprssig/aprsspec/announcements/APRSWG_charter.pdf
Now, I'm NOT complaining, what I am saying is you cannot pick and chose. If
you going to say the APRS-WG is viable, then you need to follow the charter
of the APRS-WG, which states individuals can make proposals for extensions
to the protocol, among other things.
Personally, I think we'ed be all better off just to admit what is glaringly
clear here.... that anything goes in APRS and the best software wins.
Otherwise, as I have suggested to you in the past, you need to "take back"
APRS and declare yourself the supreme dictator of APRS. Alot of people
won't like this, but dictatorships are generally much better then
anarchy/status quo which is pretty much what we have now.
If your planning on replying to this e-mail, please read it throughly
before you do. Thanks.
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Subject: Re: APRS Kenwood Radios
From: "KC2MMi" <kc2mmi@verizon.net>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 14:36:24 -0400
X-Message-Number: 27
<Easy, just look at your GPS which should display that data easily...
The D7 is designed to be connected to a GPS that has a display if you want
to SEE the GPS data... That is not the fault of the radio if you chose to
buy a GPS with no display...>
How perfectly logical, Bob! By focusing on what I could add, you missed the
point of why I might not want to add it. You solution justifies throwing
out the Kenwoods, since "simply" adding a GPS doesn't require the Kenwood
at all. The GPS works very nicely without a Kenwood!
I have a GPS with a display. And the data coming into my radio from a
remote tracker, or another D7, also has a GPS with a display.
Now, how do I get my D7 to display the information from that other GPS?
We've all got displays...but APRS and the D7 are incapable of sending the
information from one site to the other. If my D7 can't do that locally, it
can't do that for a remote GPS either.
Even with a local display, I can't see the position data from the beacon.
Adding a GPS with a display becomes a waste of time and money on both ends.
APRS and the D7 still can't do the job once *they* need to become part of
the picture. The D7 can't SEND my position, and it can't RECEIVE AND
DISPLAY the other position.
Even with the finest mapping GPSes on both end.
Care to try again, and tell me how easily the D7 can do this job? Not how a
GPS can do the job, but how APRS and the D7 can do the job?
And saying "put the radio in packet mode, add a computer, add better
software, and add a gps with a display" is not responding on point. The D7
doesn't support anything except Mic-E, or general packet radio. In Mic-E
mode it doesn't support conpressed posits.
It is incapable of receiving and displaying what the two GPSes are capable
of displaying. The radio is already obsolete.
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Subject: Re: Additional thoughts on the great debate....
<LY R36507-195826-2004.04.22-12.06.35--mikejp#videotron.ca@lists.tapr.org>
From: "Eric H. Christensen" <kf4otn@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 14:15:59 -0400
X-Message-Number: 28
What is the deal with all this Kenwood won't decode Compressed packets? I
have seen "COMPRESSED" show up as a description of a station in the station
details. But seriously folks, who looks at that list to see WHERE someone
is? I have occasionally looked at the list to make sure the station I just
got finished working on is transmitting but that is about it. As long as I
can send and receive my messages and use the on-board tracking capability
then I'm happy. When I want to see who is around me I just hook up the
laptop and crank up UI-View32. The text-based lists on the D700 are archaic
and antiquated. We are no longer in a text-based world anymore... We don't
sit there looking at a packet to gather data about the station's location
because we are looking at a text rollout... We are using mapping programs
that give street-level maps and software that decode every type of packet
out there so we as the users don't look at the raw data anymore (except for
people like me :) ).
My personal opinion is that if some of these software writers don't want to
add on to their program, then let them retire. There are still a few
programs out there that are still being actively built and improved. It
seems that everyone is happy with a position that is just better than just
sending out a six-character grid locator. Okay, maybe that was a bit
extreme, but you get my point.
Eric KF4OTN
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Subject: Re: Ambiguity?
From: "KC2MMi" <kc2mmi@verizon.net>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 14:58:42 -0400
X-Message-Number: 29
<<Any program that ASSUMES that a position entered as 35 59 is the same as
35 59.00 is making an error 99% of the time... >>
Bob, I think I do understand and appreciate your point. Interestingly
enough, with Arabic numbering the two are different, but with Roman
numerals the latter position simply cannot be written any differently from
the first, can it?<G>
You're apparently not the first one to think that the lack of a zero is a
problem in math. (Honest, that's humor!<G>)
My question then becomes, if the APRS information is going to be plotted,
drawn, or marked on a map or chart....How does the APRS spec ensure that
these two different positions will indeed be shown differently?
Or, is it physically possible to mark "35 59" on a map which has been drawn
to a higher detail level?
I see your point and the current spec apparently leaves all of this as
"pilot error" for the user. All the mroe reason to clarify the spec, extend
the spec, and then start a formal certification program. I'd be curious to
see an "APRS3.0 Certified Compliant" logo on a program, and then see how you
suggest that program display "35 59" on a street level detail map.
What are you suggesting to show this "it is not a position!" situation?
I'd probably show a circle with a 1 minute radius, centered about that
position, preferably gradient shaded fading outwards, as a starting point.
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Subject: RE: The APRS-WG and spec improvements.
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 15:15:17 -0400
X-Message-Number: 30
>>I immediately made a working proposal for the !XYZ!
>>construct that gives precision to 1 foot and also includes
>>the DATUM information AND is fully backwards compatible
>
>So give us some properly constructed example packets,
>show how it'll appear on the D700 screen, and let us
>test the proposed format with our clients of choice.
OK. I described it in at least 3 postings over the last 4 days. but to
make it easier to find amidst all the arguing, I added it to the
aprs/errata page:
http://web.usna.navy.mil/~bruninga/aprs/datum.txt
It has three precisions. None, 1 digit (thousandths of a minute, and base
91 precision to 1 foot.
Examples:
!W13! means it is WGS84 and add the thousandths digit of 1 to the latitude
and "3" to the longitude. This is good to 6 feet and human readable on the
Kenwoods or HAMHUD.
!w:\! would also be WGS84 but with better precision (base 91) adding the
two additional digits of 27 to latitude and 65 to longitude to the nearest
foot.
Bob, WB4APR
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