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ZL3AI > APRDIG 10.05.04 19:54l 261 Lines 10149 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: NOAA Environmal Hero Awards to two CWOP hams
From: "Russ Chadwick" <russ@wxqa.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 00:35:40 -0000
X-Message-Number: 42
Tomorrow (April 22) is Earth Day, which is the day each year that NOAA
Environmental Hero Awards are given out. There are 33 awards being given
this year and one of them will be presented to two members of APRSWXNET/CWOP
at the NWS Huntsville Weather Forecast Office. The award is being given to
Anthony Guillory (K4ARG) and Paul Meyer (KF4TTB) for their efforts to get
more CWOP stations in Northern Alabama. More details are in the first news
item here,
http://www.wxqa.com/news.html
This is the second NOAA Environmental Hero Award received by CWOP members.
By scrolling down the page, you can also see the story about Steve Dimse
receiving this award two years ago.
Congratulations to Paul and Anthony.
Russ Chadwick KB0TVJ
Boulder, Colorado, USA
http://www.wxqa.com
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Subject: Additional thoughts on the great debate....
From: Jim Duncan <jdbandman@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:23:12 -0500
X-Message-Number: 43
WARNING! To those who have followed this debate to date, the heretic in
me is about to emerge once again.... (I'm sorry, but I like to think
that I'm providing something meaningful to stimulate the debate and,
hence, growth...)
That being said..... Get in, sit down, shut up, and HANG ON! (my
favorite bumper sticker!)
I've been out of town since early Tuesday morning and have read (or at
least scanned) all of the sig messages. Of all the messages I read one
popped out at me: APRS is the registered trademark of Robert Bruninga.
Further, the entire APRS format is an original, copyrighted work. Even
with the APRS Spec out there it's all Bob's intellectual property.
This means, as I understand it, that nobody can alter the format,
introduce anything new, adapt, derive, or otherwise build upon Bob's
original copyrighted work without his authorization.
What does this mean?
It means, simply, that what Bob says goes as far as anything using HIS
proprietary format. If he doesn't approve, technically (AND legally) you
can't do it.
Clearly we are witnessing major growing pains and with that growth we
seem to be fast approaching a brick wall without our federally-mandated
restraint and safety devices properly engaged.
The solution (amazingly enough!) is also simple:
Abandon the APRS Spec and develop a new way of doing things. Who says
that we HAVE to continue using APRS? There are surely other ways of
doing the same thing which MAY have much more flexibility and
adaptability.
The data presented with regard to software being used clearly shows that
only a small number of users are still actually using the DOS-based
program. For whatever reason those people have chosen to stay in the
stone-age of computers.
Trying to keep 239 users happily playing with their XT's is what is
holding us back, not the Kenwood radios.
Continually trying to write code in an antiquated language for
antiquated equipment for an ever-diminishing number of potential users
is a fool's errand, in my opinion.
By all means let's keep those 239 users happy!!! And while we're at it
how about writing an APRS program for the Univac???? SURELY there must
be one potential APRS user there!!!
And we STILL haven't heard anything from the Brothers Sproul.....who
are, no doubt, out there busying themselves perfecting something new and
wonderful that takes advantage of current technology to whet our
appetites next month at Dayton!
--
73 de Jim, KU0G
"Father Marin", to some!
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Subject: Re: Additional thoughts on the great debate....
From: "Richard Amirault" <ramirault@erols.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:53:26 -0400
X-Message-Number: 44
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Duncan"
Subject: [aprssig] Additional thoughts on the great debate....
(snip)
>The data presented with regard to software being used clearly shows that
>only a small number of users are still actually using the DOS-based
>program. For whatever reason those people have chosen to stay in the
>stone-age of computers.
>
>Trying to keep 239 users happily playing with their XT's is what is
>holding us back, not the Kenwood radios.
I run my APRSDos WX station 24/7 on a Pentium II, thank you.
Why do I *choose* to run APRSDos instead of the other options? Because it is
the only program that FULLY implements all the features of APRS that the
author indended it to have.
Richard Amirault N1JDU Boston,
MA, USA
www.erols.com/ramirault "Go Fly A Kite"
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Subject: Re: Additional thoughts on the great debate....
From: Jeff King <jeff@aerodata.net>
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 22:11:41 -0400
X-Message-Number: 45
On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:23:12 -0500, Jim Duncan wrote:
>Of all the messages I
>read one popped out at me: APRS is the registered trademark of
>Robert Bruninga. Further, the entire APRS format is an original,
>copyrighted work. Even with the APRS Spec out there it's all Bob's
>intellectual property.
>This means, as I understand it, that nobody can alter the format,
>introduce anything new, adapt, derive, or otherwise build upon Bob's
>original copyrighted work without his authorization.
But what about this?
ftp://ftp.tapr.org/aprssig/aprsspec/announcements/APRSWG_charter.pdf
which describes in detail, the process as to how APRS extensions can be made.
>It means, simply, that what Bob says goes as far as anything using
>HIS proprietary format. If he doesn't approve, technically (AND
>legally) you can't do it.
Not with standing the above, by reading this mailing list it sure seems that
way.
>The solution (amazingly enough!) is also simple:
>
>Abandon the APRS Spec and develop a new way of doing things. Who
>says that we HAVE to continue using APRS?
That is throwing the baby out with the bath water. Couple things, if the
issue is the trademark, just don't use it. As to the protocol itself, if you
reference the above document from the TAPR site, you'll see the following
statement (from APRSWG_charter.pdf):
--------
1. Bob Bruninga has been the primary developer of the APRS concept. He owns
the APRSdos computer program, the APRSdos documentation, and the APRS
trademark, and retains the right to license these items to others.
2. All Group members agree that in the spirit of Amateur Radio, the on-air
protocols themselves should be open to general Amateur Radio development and
not be restricted by copyright.
-------
Now, at the bottom of the document, you'll see Bob signed this. Even though
it appears the APRS-WG has cut and run, this agreement should survive their
dissolution. Now the document is copyrighted but the protocols themselves are
not proprietary.
So I don't think you need to abandon APRS for any legal reasons to expand
upon it. Just call it Amateur AVL (AAVL) or OpenTrack, or APRS2 or whatever
you want that is not trademarked.
You are on the right track though.
-Jeff wb8wka
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Subject: Re: Additional thoughts on the great debate....
From: John Ackermann N8UR <jra@febo.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 22:20:45 -0400
X-Message-Number: 46
Jim Duncan wrote:
>
>I've been out of town since early Tuesday morning and have read (or at
>least scanned) all of the sig messages. Of all the messages I read one
>popped out at me: APRS is the registered trademark of Robert Bruninga.
>Further, the entire APRS format is an original, copyrighted work. Even
>with the APRS Spec out there it's all Bob's intellectual property.
>
>This means, as I understand it, that nobody can alter the format,
>introduce anything new, adapt, derive, or otherwise build upon Bob's
>original copyrighted work without his authorization.
That's not quite accurate. Bob owns the APRS trademark, which means that
any program using the "APRS" name needs his permission, and he owns his
software and documentation. However, Bob doesn't claim to own the on-air
formats or the concepts behind APRS.
One of the key accomplishments of the APRS Working Group was to reach
public consensus on the ownership of APRS, because prior to the WG's
formation there had been a lot of debate about that. This is from the May,
1999 APRS Working Group charter:
"Bob Bruninga has been the primary developer of the APRS concept. He owns
the APRSdos computer program, the APRSdos documentation, and the APRS
trademark, and retains the right to license these items to others. All
Group members agree that in the spirit of Amateur Radio, the on-air
protocols themselves should be open to general amateur radio development
and not be restricted by copyright."
73,
John
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Subject: Re: Introduction
From: "Michael J. Pawlowsky" <mikep@mikeathome.net>
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 22:59:32 -0400
X-Message-Number: 47
Well I was thinking of simply having it defined in the control field.
I'm pretty sure all software should parse the control field already.
So when it sees that it is a PUI frame it passes the frame to that handler.
At least that's what I do in my app.
The reason why I would like it to become part of AX.25 is so that it could
be adopted by other software. Specifically packages like AGWPE would be
nice.
There are many people working on Amateur UAVs. And one of the main reasons
everyone has there own proprietary protocol for data transmission is that
no one wants to deal with the overhead of AX.25. Basically the frame rate
is extremely important. For myself, I'm trying to get at least 10 and
hopefully 20 frames per second.
I've been on a quest to try and come up with a public standard for defining
AUAV telemetry data. It's a uphill battle to get others on board though
that's for sure!
Mike
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