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ZL3AI > APRDIG 16.04.04 14:47l 303 Lines 12335 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: RE: IGate/Server SysOps: Check your Configs
From: "Dick Stanich" <dick@kb7zva.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 5:18:54
X-Message-Number: 5
On 04/13/04, ""Dave Anderson" <dandersn@citicom.com>" wrote:
>but i'm here to provide a service to the
>community, and I think that do that every day, regardless what "title" my
>server has.
Yes, we as server admins. are all doing the same basic thing... providing a
service to the community.
Would you agree that IF these mis-configured Igates connected at a lower
level, those duplicate packets would disappear from the core?
I see dupe filtering a benefit to the core if handled at lower level
servers. Trapping dupes, errors before they enter the core. The core
servers are trying to handle too much with certain direct connects by
end-users and IGates. It shows.
The best service we can provide to the APRS community is a distributed
tiered network. We tried to discuss these 'lack of leadership' issues off
list and here we are again. I have a little more faith in our audience and
our problems shouldn't deliver the message of doom. The APRS-IS is
'unmanaged' and that's not the fault of our audience. Management issues
need to be resolved... Right or wrong we need one voice and abide by it.
Dick, KB7ZVA
APRSWest
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Subject: RE: IGate/Server SysOps: Check your Configs
From: Earl Needham <needhame1@yucca.net>
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 07:19:13 -0700
X-Message-Number: 6
At 05:12 PM 4/12/2004, Phil Pacier, AD6NH wrote:
>On 04/12/04, "Greg Noneman <greg@clubnet.net>" wrote:
>>Connecting to message only or filtered ports of either core or tier 2
>>servers does make sense for many, if not most, IGates.
>
><snip>
>If you think that "connecting to message only or filtered feed ports does
>not make sense for many, if not most IGates", then why do you offer such
>ports on Second?
Uh -- he said "does make sense", not "does NOT make sense". Possibly a
slight confusion in the process here?
7 3
Earl
Earl Needham, KD5XB, Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk
SETI@Home: 11441WU/7.42yrs
http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/find.cgi?call=kd5xb-2
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Subject: RE: IGate/Server SysOps: Check your Configs
From: Greg Noneman <greg@clubnet.net>
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 07:36:13 -0700
X-Message-Number: 7
Phil,
Please go back and re-read my message that you quoted. You have
misread my message and are basing your argument on this
misinterpretation. As I originally stated, I fully agree that many
stations do not need full-feed connections and that everyone would
benefit from their use of message-only (1314) and filtered (14580)
ports. However, there are stations that are interested in , and
capable of, receiving the full bandwidth feed. For these users, the
full-feed ports will always be available.
Again, the particular port to which a user connects is not the subject
of my post . If a user makes more than one outbound connection (either
full or filtered) duplicate data will appear at the core. This is what
I am trying to address.
73,
Greg
WB6ZSU
second.aprs.net
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Subject: Re:Mobile APRS messaging
From: "K. Mark Caviezel" <kmcaviezel@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 07:38:51 -0700 (PDT)
X-Message-Number: 8
From the research I did a while back, I saw that there was a PIC based
project that would take a PS2 keyboard and hook it to the D700 for text
entry, but it wouldn't work with the D7 HT. The limited amount of text
that I have entered on my D7 has been with the up/down/left/right button,
or the knob. This is not for the impatient. A keyboard and the OpenTrak
with a QRP HT could make an ok mobile text terminal in conjunction with a
D7, but for the hassle and throughput I'd think voice would win at least
99% of the time that you may be tempted to do remote text.
- KMC ac0ak
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Subject: Re: Mobile APRS messaging
From: "Curt, WE7U" <archer@eskimo.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 08:21:12 -0700 (PDT)
X-Message-Number: 9
On Mon, 12 Apr 2004, Scott Miller wrote:
>What's available now for sending and receiving APRS text messages while
>mobile? Don't the Kenwoods have a keypad entry mode?
>
>I was thinking about possible featuers for my new project last night, and it
>occured to me that it'd be fairly simple to provide an AT/PS2 keyboard
>interface. Since the device already has LCD support, you could conceivably
>use it to send and receive text messages. Of course, a full size keyboard
>would be way bigger than the TNC, but at least it wouldn't take much power.
>And there are some small keyboards out there.
>
>Would there be any interest in this sort of setup?
>
>The OpenTracker could be connected to a keyboard too, but you'd be typing
>blind. Or you could make a keyboard-to-CW keyer that way. Not sure what
>good that'd be...
PDA via USB/serial/bluetooth?
--
Curt, WE7U archer at eskimo dot com
Arlington, WA, USA http://www.eskimo.com/~archer
"Lotto: A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown
"Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U
"The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!"
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Subject: Re: Mobile APRS messaging
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@opentrac.org>
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 08:29:48 -0700
X-Message-Number: 10
>PDA via USB/serial/bluetooth?
Wouldn't do much good, since you still couldn't receive messages. The new
device, though, will be bidirectional. As soon as I get it working.
Finally broke down and bought myself an HP logic analyzer on eBay. Once
that gets here I should be making some more progress on that front.
Scott
N1VG
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Subject: Re:Mobile APRS messaging
From: John Hansen <hansen@fredonia.edu>
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:39:57 -0400
X-Message-Number: 11
I'm the guy that created the D700 interface for a PC keyboard. I don't own
a D7, but as far as I know, there is no way to get data into it. The
mechanism that I used with the D700 interface was to simulate the DTMF
tones that come from the microphone (only very very quickly) as text was
being entered on the mic. As far as I know, there is no way to do this on
a D7. It is also possible to enter messages through the serial port on the
D700. I didn't use that technique for the D700 keyboard interface because
then you wouldn't have been able to see the text on the D700 screen as you
typed. However, as far as I know there is no way to enter data over a
serial connection with the D7 at all. If I'm mistaken about this, I would
appreciate it if someone would set me straight because it would provide a
very convenient excuse for me to go buy a D7.
John W2FS
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Subject: Re:Mobile APRS messaging
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@opentrac.org>
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 08:50:12 -0700
X-Message-Number: 12
What I'm thinking about would give you something more like a HamHUD with a
keyboard. I think the flexible keyboard someone mentioned is here:
http://www.computergear.com/rollupkeyboard.html
I really haven't used APRS messaging, mostly because it seems so
horrendously inefficient.
Scott
N1VG
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Subject: Re: Mobile APRS messaging
From: Earl Needham <needhame1@yucca.net>
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 09:54:22 -0700
X-Message-Number: 13
Don't forget the HamHUD -- www.hamhud.net
7 3
Earl
Earl Needham, KD5XB, Clovis, New Mexico DM84jk
SETI@Home: 11443WU/7.42yrs
http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/find.cgi?call=kd5xb-2
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Subject: RE: IGate/Server SysOps: Check your Configs
From: "Phil Pacier, AD6NH" <ad6nh@arrl.net>
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:8:3
X-Message-Number: 14
On 04/13/04, ""Dave Anderson" <dandersn@citicom.com>" wrote:
>>filtered ports. You have this completely backwards, Greg. There is
>>little, if any reason for anyone to connect to a full feed port.
>
>There are some reasons, Phil. Beit a database mining connection the APRS-IS
>(findu/aprsworld/jfindu/etc), a user simply wanting to see world coverage
>(there are who do for signal reports/beacons etc), or whatever. There are
>always going to be users that want/need a full feed.
Yes. In ever said otherwise. They can and should connect to the core! I
advertise that much on my website!!
>I'll be the first to admit that the majority of 10152/23 connects are
>probably -not- needing full feeds, and a regional feed would suffice better
>for them, but you can't force someone to subscribe to how you see they
>should run their station. APRSCOP comes to mind there. We can educate the
>folks out there using -any- server what their best options are and if they
>decide to do otherwise, that is their prerogative.
Right! And when we agree in open forum to educate a certain way, and then
take it to the sig with another idea, that is when I get puzzled. I never
said anything about turning the core off or killing the core. I don't know
where you got that, but it's just an untrue statement. A stable, reliable
core system is necessary for Tier 2 to operate!
>And is the point of this thread. We are trying to identify the sources of
>the duplicate packets, which represent more wasted wasted bandwidth than
>if -everyone- picked up a full feed. All we can do is ask users and bring
>it to their attention. Right now over 30% of the traffic I have received
>in the past 24 hours is duplicate material. That's the issue of discussion
>here. Nothing more.
I agree! There has not been a need for multiple bi-directional feeds for a
long long time, if ever. I even see an average 25% dupe rate on my server,
and have known what the problems are that are causing the dupes. But
something else was thrown in to the original post that said "if you are
continuing to connect to the core, continue to do so" and that is what took
it on this tangent. While I understand that theory, and agree that those
who still want/need the full feed should connect to the core, I thought we
had another system in the works that was discussed several weeks ago. This
post threw that out the window in my mind. Maybe I'm wrong.
>Hmm. Just previous you said:
>
>"There is little, if any reason for anyone to connect to a full feed port."
>
>Now if this is "true" and core servers didn't offer filtered feeds, then
>what would we be left with? Oh, yeah, nothing.
How is 10151, 10152, 23, 1314 nothing? Are not more than 50% of all your
connections on those ports? This sounds a lot like whining to me. I don't
know how you got on this track, but you have not really been reading my
post! You are saying my goal is to move all users off the core and kill
the core. I have never said anything of the like. I assume there are
still 200-300 users out there, maybe more, who want/need the full feed.
Again, how is that leaving you with nothing. A server with fewer connects
is more stable - period.
>Phil, let's keep this on track, the current discussion is about duplicate
>packets, not killing the core.
Your words, not mine! Again and again, I have never once advocated
"killing the core". Again and again, a stable and reliable core system is
necessary for the Tier 2 service to work as well as it does. At present,
the core system is slightly less than stable and reliable - IN MY OPINION.
I'll leave it at that, but I don't know where you get these accusations
about my wanting to "kill the core".
>Sorry to be a bit synical, but i'm here to provide a service to the
>community, and I think that do that every day, regardless what "title" my
>server has.
And we all are. Again and again and again, I thought we had agreed upon a
course of action at the core and Tier 2 levels, and your posts along with
Greg's posts have not indicated any moving in that direction.
73
Phil - AD6NH
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