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ZL3AI > APRDIG 25.03.04 23:04l 298 Lines 10985 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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To : APRDIG@WW
TAPR APRS Special Interest Group Digest for Monday, March 22, 2004.
1. BPL Contests and Flash Mobs
2. Re: Looking for RDF and APRS users
3. Walkie Talkie add needed
4. New APRS Book Now Shipping
5. Re: Walkie Talkie add needed
6. Re: 441.125 APRS Freq?
7. Re: BPL Contests and Flash Mobs
8. Re: BPL Contest and FLASH MOBS
9. Re: BPL Contest and FLASH MOBS
10. Re: BPL Contest and FLASH MOBS
11. RE: BPL Contests and Flash Mobs
12. Re: BPL Contests and Flash Mobs
13. APRS wx t... on aprsworld and findu
14. Re: BPL Contests and Flash Mobs
15. Re: BPL Contests and Flash Mobs
16. Re: 441.125 APRS Freq?
17. RE: APRS wx t... on aprsworld and findu
18. Re: 441.125 APRS Freq?
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Subject: BPL Contests and Flash Mobs
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:43:16 -0500 (EST)
X-Message-Number: 1
BPL Contests and FLASH MOBS:
A Flash MOB is an internet phenomenon where a popular WEB page calls on all
viewers to converge on a scene for a few moments just to show MASS impact.
What we need are some opportunities for all HF mobiles to "flash" to a BPL
neighborhood during any BPL tests.
Lets call it a BPL Operating event or BPL contest. Stations in the BPL
zone get multipliers for power. Power in dB is a multiplier. 100 Watts is
a x20 multiplier and 1 KW is a x30 multiplier. Mobiles also get a x10
multiplier. But, since the closer they are to a BPL source the better, it
also makes it worse for the mobile to hear anything.. Thus, we need
weaksignal points also.
Probably best to allow TEAM operation. One operator (a RX operator) a few
miles out of area, acts as a spotter and relays responses to the BPL
mobile. The Mobile transmits to all that can hear him and all responses
he can't hear are relayed by his RX team mate. This then also demonstrates
what the mobile CANNOT hear because of BPL! There is a x10 multiplier for
all such inbound RELAYS...
I don't think the ARRL could sponsor this event and retain its above board
reputation, but we could get this idea to other groups that sponsor HF
contests...
Just tell us where the BPL neighborhoods are and then Flash Mob it with HF
mobiles....
Just a thought. Use our freqs or lose them....
de WB4APR@amsat.org, Bob
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Subject: Re: Looking for RDF and APRS users
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:56:21 -0500
X-Message-Number: 2
>Is there anyone on this list that uses APRS in conjunction
>with RDF or more specifically ELT DFing?
See my APRS DFING web page as a start.
http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/dfing.html
It shows all the techniques for NOT using DF equipment but simply using
what ever onmi rig you happen to have be it your HT or mobile or VHF
airband rig to home in on a signal with nothing but a whip...
de WB4APR, Bob
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Subject: Walkie Talkie add needed
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:32:38 -0500
X-Message-Number: 3
I'm writing a QST article and need a copy of a photogenic eye-catching ad
for cell phone walkie-talkie feature.
I've been bombarded for over a year with them, but now that I am looking
for one, I can 't find one!
I'd like one that shows a familly using it if possible. If not that, then
at least showing someone using it...
My article is going to show why HAM radio HT's still have value over cell
phones..
Send direct. Thanks
Bob
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Subject: New APRS Book Now Shipping
From: "Stan Horzepa" <shorzepa@c-cor.net>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 9:29:30
X-Message-Number: 4
A new book, `APRS -- Moving Hams on Radio and the Internet,' is now
shipping. For more information, go to:
http://www.arrl.org/catalog/?item=9167
Stan Horzepa, WA1LOU
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Subject: Re: Walkie Talkie add needed
From: Derek Koonce <derek@dkoonce.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:30:37 -0800
X-Message-Number: 5
I'd like to see the finished article. There are still places where cell
phones do not work - out of network zones - and HTs are still good.
I can still recall the time there was an accident on Hwy N2 between
Palmdale and Pasadena in California. All the people with cell phones kept
having their calls dropped after about 20 -30 seconds. However, we were
able to get out with a 5W HT into a repeater and get emergerncy vehicles
rolling.
Derek.
KE6JTP
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Subject: Re: 441.125 APRS Freq?
From: "Phil Pacier, AD6NH" <ad6nh@arrl.net>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:16:31
X-Message-Number: 6
On 03/21/04, ""Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu>" wrote:
>>>>"Christensen, Eric" <CHRISTENSENE@MAIL.ECU.EDU> 3/21/04 7:34:19 AM
>>>>
>>
>>But maybe NOW is the time to attempt to establish a
>>"Nationally" recognized 70cm frequency for LAN use.
>
>Yes, exactly! 445.925
I really don't think you're going to have much luck establishing a
nationwide UHF frequency for APRS, due to the differences in coordination
and even channelization. For example, several years ago in Southern
California, the 70cm band went to 20khz spacing to acommodate more
repeaters and simplex channels. Therefore 445.925 is no longer a valid
channel here (.900, .920, .940, etc.). I have been told that the reason
why we only went to 20khz and why most of the rest of the nation is still
on 25khz is to acommodate the use of older commercial equipment and ham
equipment that can't adjust the channel steps. I thought we should just go
to 12.5khz, which is now the commercial standard on UHF, but I'm but one
needle in a haystack. Back to the point - it wont be a problem
establishing local UHF links for Bob's proposal.
73
Phil - AD6NH
http://www.aprsca.net
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Subject: Re: BPL Contests and Flash Mobs
From: Jeff King <jeff@aerodata.net>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:08:54 -0600 (CST)
X-Message-Number: 7
Your point? To jam BPL testing?
That is not why I got my license.
Your efforts would be better spent showing up at utility hearings and/or
city council meetings and fighting it before it shows up in your community.
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Subject: Re: BPL Contest and FLASH MOBS
From: Jeff King <jeff@aerodata.net>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 13:25:52 -0600 (CST)
X-Message-Number: 8
----- Forwarded message from "Carl R. Stevenson" <wk3c@wk3c.com> -----
Folks,
Deliberately setting out to jam BPL trials is a VERY bad idea. We have
ample opportunities to accurately document legitimate cases of BPL
interference to amateur radio (and other licensed services - have you tried
to copy WWV in a BPL area, for example? I have and BPL trashes WWV.)
We need to take the high road here and not allow our emotions over this
issue to push us down the path of degrading into a mob mentality, because
to do so will hurt FAR more than it could ever help our cause.
73,
Carl - wk3c
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Subject: Re: BPL Contest and FLASH MOBS
From: David VanHorn <dvanhorn@cedar.net>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:41:56 -0500
X-Message-Number: 9
>Deliberately setting out to jam BPL trials is a VERY bad idea. We have
>ample opportunities to accurately document legitimate cases of BPL
>interference to amateur radio (and other licensed services - have you tried
>to copy WWV in a BPL area, for example? I have and BPL trashes WWV.)
>
>We need to take the high road here and not allow our emotions over this
>issue to push us down the path of degrading into a mob mentality, because to
>do so will hurt FAR more than it could ever help our cause.
The way I read that, was as a party to explore the depth of the problem, as
a group, NOT as deliberately interfering with the BPL operations.
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Subject: Re: BPL Contest and FLASH MOBS
From: Jeff King <jeff@aerodata.net>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:16:09 -0600 (CST)
X-Message-Number: 10
Quoting David VanHorn <dvanhorn@cedar.net>:
>>Deliberately setting out to jam BPL trials is a VERY bad idea.
...
>The way I read that, was as a party to explore the depth of the problem,
>as a group, NOT as deliberately interfering with the BPL operations.
No idea, I wasn't the author of the message you replied to, just forwarded
it from HFSIG. Here is Bob's reply to the same message on HFSIG.
-Jeff
----- Forwarded message from Robert Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu> -----
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:42:07 -0500
From: Robert Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Reply-To: TAPR HF Special Interest Group <hfsig@lists.tapr.org>
Subject: [hfsig] Re: BPL Contest and FLASH MOBS
To: TAPR HF Special Interest Group <hfsig@lists.tapr.org>
>>>wk3c@wk3c.com 3/22/04 1:19:09 PM >>>
>Folks,
>
>Deliberately setting out to jam BPL trials is a VERY bad idea.
>We have ample opportunities to accurately document
>legitimate cases of BPL interference to amateur radio
I dont know about "ample". Trials are conducted in small areas in
probably 0.0001% of USA Neighborhoods. The chances of there being HAMS
living within a block of a house in the BPL trials are small.
Statistically, then one could prove the "impact is small". Its not until
you get to the real-world where EVERY ham is within a block of a BPL user
that the "small impact" becomes ENORMOUS to that HAM.
>have you tried to copy WWV in a BPL area, for example?
>I have and BPL trashes WWV.)
But who cares? "No one" these days uses WWV for timing, they all use GPS.
And the FCC doesnt care about HAMS using it for propogation studies since
to them a cell phone is all anyone needs to communicate...
>We need to take the high road here and not allow our
>emotions over this issue to push us down the path of
>degrading into a mob mentality, because to
>do so will hurt FAR more than it could ever help our cause.
True, but just driving around and listening and documenting how they
interferre with us is not worth nearly so much as turning the situation
around and letting them experience the interferece FROM us. We dont
operate often, but when we DO, we want to be able to transmit with
impunity...
Why not do that now while they are determining if the system is workable or
not, instead of later after billions of $$$ are spent and then it's too
late....
I'm speaking tongue-in-cheek of course. Yes, although I enjoyed making the
post about the BPL contest idea in jest, I do think that if properly
considered and not placed in an US-vs-them scenario, that it could be a
useful exercise.. to really see the impact on a larger scale...
Bob
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