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ZL3AI > APRDIG 07.03.04 13:06l 381 Lines 15062 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
BID : 2980-ZL3AI
Read: GUEST
Subj: TAPR Digest, Mar 05, 6/9
Path: DB0FHN<DB0THA<DB0ERF<DB0FBB<DB0IUZ<DB0GOS<ON0AR<ON0AR<VE2PAK<N1UAN<
WB0TAX<W4JAX<VK4TUB<ZL2BAU<ZL2BAU<ZL3VML
Sent: 040307/1026Z @:ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC #:20535 [Chch-NZ] FBB7.00i $:2980-ZL3AI
From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: RE: stir up the path pot!
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 13:49:43 -0500
X-Message-Number: 35
>>>James Jefferson <jj@aprsworld.net> 3/5/04 12:42:50 PM >>>
>>None of the other authors have commented on this,
>As author of aprsworld.net I agree with Steve that not i-gating people with
>excessive paths is not a solution.
That was NOT my proposal. My proposal as modified was to simply MARK
locally offensive paths WHILE forwarding to FINDU. I agree completely not
to filter them becusae then the feedback would never get to the users.
>Doing a "bad paths" page similar to the NW APRS network could be good. I'd be
>happy to supply data and resources to anybody that wanted to code that up and
>maintain it. I don't have the time to do it myself right now.
Yes, exactly, but by marking them as abusive at the point of entry
according to the LOCAL rules guarantees fairness and prevents long paths
in spares area that are necessary from being so marked.
Bob
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: Radar Camera mapping app - GB
From: "Ciemon G0TRT" <aprssig@g0trt.com>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 19:14:18 -0000
X-Message-Number: 36
True.... more British lunacy.
Dave wrote:
>I saw a program on "worst drivers" (british) where traffic was backed up
>behind someone in the fast lane, and someone else passed him in the slow
>lane, and was therefore ticketed.. The idiot blocking the fast lane was
>apparently just fine with the cops.
>
>Somewhere I heard the comment made, "Driving with excessive cheek".
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: stir up the path pot!
From: Steve Dimse <k4hg@tapr.org>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 14:19:03 -0500
X-Message-Number: 37
On 3/5/04 at 1:44 PM Robert Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu> sent:
>The proposal I saw from you was the hall of shame.
>But that is totally repugant because it is trying to
>fit one rule everywhere. That just cannot possibly work.
>If you made another proposal, I must have missed it.
I've done it three or four times, makes me feel like you don't read what I
write any longer! The proposal has evolved a little bit from my first post
of it last night, read all of the messages before you come to a conclusion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: stir up the path pot!
From: Steve Dimse <k4hg@tapr.org>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 14:22:50 -0500
X-Message-Number: 38
On 3/5/04 at 1:44 PM Robert Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu> sent:
>>And no, I'm not going away with this until you either
>>abandon the proposal to have IGate operators
>>filter long paths, or accept the responsibility for
>>weilding the power of findU banishment.
>
>I'm not sure what that sentence means? I take
>full responsibility for the idea of giving feedback
>to abusive local paths as determined by local
>considerations via FINDU. This doesnt bansih
>them at all. It just marks them as being abusive
>as determined locally (not by FINDU)..
The remark is frustratration at having my proposal which addresses all of
both of our concerns, and covers more forms of abuse, completely ignored by
you. Most importantly, it was to do exactly what it did, make you pay
attention! ;-)
>>I really hope it will be the later, the
>>more I think about it the more I think this could be
>>a good idea, but it needs someone at the head
>>that is well respected, has no axes to grind, and is
>>not a lightning rod for controversy. It needs you,
>>Bob! If you aren't willing to accept the
>>responsibility, fine, but say so publicly...
>
>Again, if I understand you correctly, I am fully
>willing to endorse the idea... Dont know where
>you got the idea that I didnt?
Read the messages of the last 18 hours, and then say if you endorse it...
Steve K4HG
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: stir up the path pot!
From: Steve Dimse <k4hg@tapr.org>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 14:32:29 -0500
X-Message-Number: 39
On 3/5/04 at 1:49 PM Robert Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu> sent:
>Yes, exactly, but by marking them as abusive at the point of entry
>according to the LOCAL rules guarantees fairness and prevents
>long paths in spares area that are necessary from being so marked.
The problem with this is still that:
It requires the cooperation of all the IGate authors.
It places control of the local determination in the hands of the IGate
operators, who in general are not the best people for the job.
If not all IGate operators in an area covered by an offending signal are not
cooperating, the effectiveness is greatly diminished.
It makes me responsible for devising a way to handle the "marked" packets,
to display the problem and provide education to offenders, this is not
fair.
Much better is my proposal, where any local user, or small group of local
users could, after attempting direct means to contact and educate the
offender have failed, file a complaint, which if you (or a group appointed
by you) judge to be valid, perhaps after attempting contaact/education
yourself, woudl result in the blockage of the data from findU.
This does not result in collateral damage, places the ability to file
complaints with the users of the local RF network where it belongs, and can
be programmed and implemented in a single hour by me alone.
Steve K4HG
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Hall of Shame
From: Steve Dimse <k4hg@tapr.org>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 14:55:26 -0500
X-Message-Number: 40
For anyone interested in looking at path lengths, here is a quick perl
program to help. Save the Perl program to path.pl, and run it by piping in
a telnet seesion from the APRS IS:
telnet 4.aprs.net | ./path.pl
It isn't perfect, some of the paths aren't possible to determine, like
whether a WIDEn digi inserts its call in front of the path. Near the bottom
is a US filter, this can be changed to anything you'd like for your area
(or pipe in a filtered feed). Below the program is a few minutes of output.
Personal favorite is N8YIB-2, a fixed digi which beacons every 90 seconds
through W,W,W3-3, which stands out because the colon in HTTP:// is grabbed
as the end of the packet, minor bug left to the reader as an exercise!
------------------------------
#!/usr/bin/perl
while (<>)
{
next unless m/([\w\-]+)\>([\w\-]+)\,(.+)\:/; #get the header fields
$call = $1;
$dest = $2;
$path = $3;
my $sum = 0;
@path = split(/,/,$path); #split the path fields
foreach $digi (@path) #go through one at a time
{
last if ($digi =~ m/^q/); #reached the q construct, end of rf path
my $val = 1; #default value
if ($digi =~ m/^WIDE(\d)/)
{
$val = $1;
$val -= 1 if (($digi =~ m/WIDE(\d)\-(\d)/) and ($1 != $2) and
($sum != 0));
$val -= 1 if ($digi =~ m/WIDE\d\*{0,1}$/);
}
if ($digi =~ m/^TRACE(\d)/)
{
$val = $1;
$val -= $2 if (($digi =~ m/TRACE(\d)\-(\d)/) and ($1 != $2) and
($sum != 0));
$val -= $1 if ($digi =~ m/TRACE(\d)\*{0,1}$/);
}
$val = 0 if ($digi =~ m/^GATE/); #no VHF impact, ignore
$val = 0 if ($digi =~ m/^IGATE/); #no VHF impact, ignore
$val = 0 if ($digi =~ m/^SATGATE/); #no VHF impact, ignore
$sum += $val;
}
next unless ($call =~ m/^[WKNA]/); #US callsign filter
printf ("%9s %2d %s\n",$call,$sum,$path) if ($sum > 4);
$cnt++;
}
------------------------------
N5NYP 5 WIDE5-4,qAo,KD5LDQ
K4MQF-1 7 WD4HDL-1*,WIDE6-6,qAS,K4HWK-3
WB9BJQ 5 WIDE5-5,qAS,W9RPM
N7ZEF 5 WIDE5-3,qAR,KC7ZRU-15
KC5UNC 5 SOKC,CHNDLR,ETULSA,DECATU,WHTNY*,TRACE5,qAR,KD5STN
WB9BJQ 5 WIDE5-2,qAo,N9SDL
W8ISH-9 6 RELAY,WIDE5-5,qAR,WA9BD-4
K5WTC-2 5 KD5JTM-5*,WIDE5-3,qAS,KC5IBY
WB5EZO-7 5 TRACE5-5,qAR,W5MPZ-1
KC5SII-3 6 KC5SII-1,W5HTK-3*,WIDE5-4,qAo,WA8EFC
WB5ODJ-8 5 KV3B-1*,WIDE,WIDE3-3,qAS,N2TBX-11
KF4TML 6 N4WYK-2*,WIDE6-5,qAS,WA4SAS
WB6RAO 6 RELAY,TRACE5-5,qAS,KV4OA
N8YIB-2 5
N4DSL-3*,WIDE,WIDE3-3,qAR,KE4LKQ:!3934.92NN07853.88W#PHG5760/W-R-T-G HTTP
K4MQF-1 6 WD4HDL-1*,WIDE6-5,qAo,KD7QOT-1
KG4LKY-3 6 KF4OWQ-2*,WIDE5-5,qAo,KF4ZUX:`oU
KA4AFI-9 7 KC5MVZ-2*,WIDE,WIDE5-5,qAS,KC5IBY
AB9M-3 5 W9HOI*,WIDE3-3,KB9YVN,IGATE,qAS,KB9YVN
N5UJN 5 WIDE5-4,qAR,W5MPZ-1
W5SSG 5 KB5ZOG-5*,WIDE5-2,qAo,WA8EFC:>051939zDX: KB5ZOG-5 35.07.04N
98.15.44W 36.6 miles 18? 13
WB9BJQ 5 WIDE5-3,qAo,N9SDL
KG9B-11 5 KG9B-10,W9LTA-10*,WIDE3-3,qAo,N9QIP
N3ZLL-2 5 N3XJT-1,W3UD-3*,WIDE3-3,qAR,N3XJT-5
KC0MDL 5 RELAY,WIDE3-3,TRACE,qAo,KB0PXE
N7UWX-3 6 RELAY,WIDE5-5,qAR,KD7GIZ-10
WB5LJO-13 5 WIDE5-4,qAS,n5faz
N5UJN 5 WIDE5-4,qAR,W5MPZ-1
N3OBQ 5 N3XJT-1*,WIDE,WIDE3-3,qAR,N3XJT-5
KD4FZK 5 RELAY,KD4WLI,N2WFU*,WIDE3-1,qAo,KQ4KX
KG9B-11 5 KG9B-10,W9LTA-10*,WIDE3-3,qAo,N9QIP
KC6ETE-3 5 WIDE5-3,qAR,WA9BD-4
K4REH-14 5 K0DMX*,WIDE4-4,qAo,N0AN
AB9M-3 5 W9HOI*,WIDE3-3,KB9YVN,IGATE,qAS,KB9YVN
KC0IKU-1 5 W9UUM-1*,WIDE4-4,qAS,W9RPM
KA4AFI-9 7 KC5MVZ-2*,WIDE,WIDE5-5,qAS,KC5IBY
N9ZWY-2 7 N9ZWY-10,N0WLU-10,WB0BBM,W0BXR-2*,TRACE4-1,qAS,NN9K
WD4GYW-14 6 WA4BWB-3*,WIDE6-5,qAR,WA4BWB-2
N5NYP 5 WIDE5-4,qAo,KD5LDQ
N3ZLL-2 5 N3XJT-1*,TRACE,WIDE3-3,qAR,N3XJT-5
WA6YLB-4 5 WA6JJA-3,K6IXA-3,W6BXN-3,KE6UKR-3,WIDE,qAo,KN6KS-3
KC8SYE-3 9 KC8LJC-10*,WIDE4-4,TRACE4-4,qAo,NK8X-3
N3FJA-7 5 K3GLK-1*,WIDE5-2,qAo,WX4LWX
W7NWS 5 WIDE5-4,qAR,WT7T-6
KD7MCW-8 8 KB7WFO,KD7DR-3,WHTNKS,WB6WLV-11*,TRACE5-1,qAR,W9IF
N3FJA-7 5 WD4HDL-1*,WIDE5-1,qAS,K4HWK-3
N8YIB-2 5
N4DSL-3*,WIDE,WIDE3-3,qAR,KE4LKQ:!3934.92NN07853.88W#PHG5760/W-R-T-G HTTP
N9MEC-8 7 WIDE7-4,qAo,KB9ZWL
KD1OQ 5 N1EZT-3,WIDE4-4,qAS,KB5TBB
N7UWX-13 6 N7UWX-3*,WIDE5-5,qAR,KD7GIZ-10
K6SYV-10 5 TRACE5-5,qAR,N1VG
WB6RAO 6 RELAY,TRACE5-5,qAS,KV4OA
N4TJI 5 WA4KXV,KB4TOH-10*,WIDE3-3,qAr,KE4TZN
K5JMH-9 6 AI5TX-2*,WIDE5-5,qAo,K5MBH-3
W5MAY-2 5 WIDE5-4,qAR,WO5M-10
WB5EZO-7 8 CREST,DEZA,PORTER,KD7DR-3*,TRACE5-1,qAR,KF6WAX-1
KD7WIS 5 K7RNS-10*,WIDE5-1,qAR,WT7T-6
KG4KBW-1 6 KF4OWQ-2*,WIDE5-5,qAo,KF4ZUX
AB0XM-1 7 AB0XM-10*,WIDE7-6,qAR,AB0XK-10
W7VL 6 GREENO*,TRACE5-5,qAR,N7VMR-1
KC5QGQ-14 5 CAPILA,CREST*,WIDE3-3,qAR,W5MPZ-1
WB9TLH-11 5 WB9TLH-10,KB9QJM-10*,WIDE3-3,qAR,WA9BD-4
AB9M-3 5 W9HOI*,WIDE3-3,KB9YVN,IGATE,qAS,KB9YVN
K0UB 5 K0ND-5,K0ND-10,K7RNS-10*,TRACE3-1,qAR,K7RNS
KG4KBW-1 6 KF4OWQ-2*,WIDE5-5,qAo,KF4ZUX
KA4AFI-9 6 KD5JTM-5,K5WTC-3*,WIDE5-3,qAR,NN5DX-9
N9YRX 5 RELAY,WIDE3-3,WX3,qAR,WD9EKA
KI0DJ-14 5 WIDE5-4,qAR,W9MUF
N3VTV 5 RELAY,WIDE,WIDE3-3,qAR,K3PDK-1
KD7WIS 5 K7RNS-10*,WIDE5-3,qAR,WT7T-6
N1WTQ 6 RELAY,WIDE,WIDE4-4,qAo,K1XVM
KG4KBW-1 6 KF4OWQ-2*,WIDE5-5,qAo,KF4ZUX
K5BOC-14 5 GAYLOR,DECATU*,WIDE3-3,qAR,KD5STN
KG4KBW-1 6 KF4OWQ-2*,WIDE5-5,qAo,KF4ZUX
KB9SCT 5 WIDE5-3,qAR,KG9NI
KC0MDL 5 RELAY,WIDE3-3,TRACE,qAo,KB0PXE
N9JCA-14 5 RELAY,WIDE4-4,qAR,N9UUR-10
KB9SCT 5 WIDE5-1,qAR,KC9AXZ
W8ISH-9 6 RELAY,WIDE5-5,qAR,WA9BD-4
KD7MCW-8 5 KB7WFO,KD7DR-3,WHTNKS,KJ7KY-15,WB6WLV-11*,TRACE5,qAR,W9IF
K0FJ-2 7 WIDE7-7,qAO,K0FJ-10
KC5UNC 5 TRACE5-5,qAo,WA8EFC
K3PDK-15 5 RELAY,WIDE4-4,qAR,K3PDK-1:'i
WD5IYT-2 5 WIDE5-5,qAo,WB5BBW
KD6SWR-7 8 RELAY,WIDE7-7,qAO,KC4OUA
K4REH-14 5 N0INX-1*,WIDE4-4,qAo,N0AN
N5XXO-1 5 WIDE5-5,qAR,NN5DX-9
KA4AFI-9 7 KC5MVZ-2*,WIDE,WIDE5-5,qAS,KC5IBY
KB9RKU-3 5 RELAY,KA9VNV-15,N9IJ-10,WIDE3*,qAR,N9LYF-1
AB9M-3 5 W9HOI*,WIDE3-3,KB9YVN,IGATE,qAS,KB9YVN
N8YIB-2 5 WIDE,WIDE,WIDE3-3,qAR,W1CAR:!3934.92NN07853.88W#PHG5760/W-R-T-G
HTTP
KG4KBW-1 5 KF4OWQ-2*,WIDE5-2,qAR,WA4BWB-2
KG4KBW-1 5 KF4UCI-4*,WIDE5-1,qAR,KE4LKQ
W1AGG-14 5 W5AC-2*,WIDE4-4,qAo,KJ5O
KG4KBW-1 5 WD4HDL-1,WIDE5*,qAS,K4HWK-3
N6HGA-1 5 WIDE2-2,W6SCE-10,WIDE2-2,qAo,KN6KS-3
K6TR 5 W6CO-5*,WIDE,WA6AFT-3,W6CX-3,K6BIV-3,qAR,K6TPK-7
KB9SCT 5 WIDE5-1,qAo,N9SDL
N3OBQ 5 N3XJT-1*,WIDE,WIDE3-3,qAR,N3XJT-5
K4REH-14 5 N0INX-1*,WIDE4-4,qAO,N0YKX
K5JMH-9 6 RELAY,WIDE5-5,qAo,KC5EVE-12
KG9B-10 7 WIDE7-6,qAo,N9QIP
N7UWX-3 5 WIDE5-5,qAR,KD7GIZ-10
KI0BJ 6 KI0BJ-10*,TRACE5-5,qAR,WT7T-6
N7ZEF 5 WIDE5-3,qAR,KC7ZRU-15
KA4AFI-9 7 KC5MVZ-2*,WIDE,WIDE5-5,qAS,KC5IBY
WD4GYW-14 6 WA4BWB-3*,WIDE6-5,qAR,WA4BWB-2
AB9M-3 5 W9HOI*,WIDE3-3,KB9YVN,IGATE,qAS,KB9YVN
N3VTV 5 RELAY,WIDE,WIDE3-3,qAR,K3PDK-1
KB9RKU-3 5 RELAY,KA9VNV-15,N9IJ-10*,WIDE3-1,qAR,N9OIG
KC0MDL 5 RELAY,WIDE3-3,TRACE,qAS,KC0KEP-1
KG4KBW-1 5 WA4BWB-3*,WIDE5,qAR,WA4BWB-2
KJ5QQ-4 5 RELAY,WIDE,WIDE3-3,qAo,AE5PL
KG4KBW-1 5 K4EME-3*,WIDE5-2,qAR,KE4LKQ
KG4KBW-1 5 WD4HDL-1,WIDE5*,qAS,K4HWK-3
WIDE7-7 15 IZ8DDG*,WIDE7-7,TRACE7-7,qAR,IW8DON
KG4KBW-1 5 KD4ZB-3,WIDE5*,qAR,KE4LKQ
KG4KBW-1 5 WA4BWB-3*,WIDE5,qAR,WA4BWB-2
WB7WVG-14 5 RELAY*,WIDE4-4,qAR,K0ANI-9
N8YIB-2 5 KN4U-3*,WIDE,WIDE3-3,qAR,KE4LKQ:!3934.92NN07853.88W#PHG5760/W-R-T-G
HTTP
N6HGA-1 5 WIDE2-1,W6SCE-10,WIDE2-2,qAO,AD6NH
K4REH-14 5 K0DMX*,WIDE4-4,qAO,N0YKX
KC9AEJ 5 K9AEG-10*,KC9NW-10,WIDE4-3,qAo,N9SDL
N9ZWY-2 5 N9ZWY-10,N0WLU-10,N9QIP-6*,TRACE3-1,qAR,KG9NI
NH7C-5 5 WIDE5-5,qAR,AH6GR
KA4AFI-9 7 KD5JTM-5*,WIDE,WIDE5-5,qAS,KC5IBY
N9YRX 5 RELAY,WIDE3-3,WX3,qAR,WD9EKA
KG4KBW-1 5 KD4ZB-3,WIDE5*,qAR,KE4LKQ
KG4KBW-1 5 KA4KMA-5,WIDE5*,qAR,KC4YOZ
WB5LJO-13 5 WIDE5-4,qAS,n5faz
K0ND-5 5 WIDE5-3,qAR,K7RNS
N3XJT-5 5 N3XJT-1,AA3JY-4,N3KTX-3*,TRACE3-1,qAo,AJ3U-1
W8ISH-9 6 RELAY,WIDE5-5,qAR,WA9BD-4
WA6YLB-4 5 WA6JJA-3,K6IXA-3,W6BXN-3,KE6UKR-3,WIDE,qAo,KN6KS-3
KB9SCT-7 5 WIDE5-3,qAR,KG9NI
KB9SCT-7 5 W9UUM-1*,WIDE5-1,qAS,W9RPM
KD4ZB-3 5 N4DSL-3*,WIDE,TRACE3-3,qAR,KE4LKQ
KG9B-10 7 WIDE7-5,qAR,KG9NI
K4REH-14 5 K0DMX*,WIDE4-4,qAo,N0AN
K5JMH-9 6 RELAY,WIDE5-5,qAo,KC5EVE-12
KA4AFI-9 7 KD5JTM-5*,WIDE,WIDE5-5,qAS,KC5IBY
KG4KBW-1 5 WX4GSO-9*,WIDE5-1,qAo,KF4VTT
KG4KBW-1 5 W4TL-3,WIDE5*,qAo,KC4ZGQ-10
N3VTV 5 RELAY,WIDE,WIDE3-3,qAR,K3PDK-1
N3ZLG 6 N3NXC-1*,WIDE5-5,qAC,N3ZLG
WN7Y 5 RELAY*,WIDE5-4,qAR,WT7T-6
KG4KBW-1 5 N4WYK-2*,WIDE5-1,qAS,W4JRD-4
K0UB 5 K0ND-5,K0ND-10,K7RNS-10*,TRACE3-1,qAR,K7RNS::>N0QAU:
KC0MDL 5 RELAY*,WIDE3-3,TRACE,qAo,AA9MQ-10
KA0JLF 5 RELAY,WIDE,WIDE3-3,qAo,W0JRT
KG4KBW-1 5 N4WYK-2*,WIDE5-1,qAS,W4JRD-4
N8YIB-2 5 KN4U-3*,WIDE,WIDE3-3,qAR,KE4LKQ:!3934.92NN07853.88W#PHG5760/W-R-T-G
HTTP
KD4ZB-3 5 WIDE,KF4UCI-3,WD4HDL-1,KV3B-2,N3KTX-1,TRACE3*,qAo,KD7QOT-1
N5WRW-1 6 K5DRT-1,KE5PL-2,N5XXO-1*,TRACE7-4,qAR,NN5DX-9
KC5SOU-14 8 ADA,KB5ZOG-5*,WIDE7-3,qAo,WA8EFC
WB6RAO 6 RELAY,TRACE5-5,qAS,KV4OA
K0RFL-1 7 WIDE7-4,qAR,AB0XK-10
K4REH-14 5 K0DMX*,WIDE4-4,qAo,N0AN
WB9TLH-11 5 WB9TLH-10*,RELAY,WIDE3-3,qAo,KB9QJM-10
KA4AFI-9 7 KC5MVZ-2*,WIDE,WIDE5-5,qAS,KC5IBY
KI0DJ-14 5 WIDE5-5,qAR,N9LYF-1
N5THR-11 7 KG5KS-3*,WIDE7-5,qAr,KK5WM
WD4GYW-14 6 WIDE6-6,qAR,WA4BWB-2
N1WTQ 6 RELAY,WIDE,WIDE4-4,qAo,K1XVM
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