| |
ZL3AI > APRDIG 06.03.04 14:31l 160 Lines 5849 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
BID : 2972-ZL3AI
Read: GUEST
Subj: TAPR Digest, Mar 04, 14/14
Path: DB0FHN<DB0THA<DB0ERF<DB0FBB<DB0GOS<ON0AR<ON0AR<IK1ZNW<ZL2TZE<VK3TE<
ZL2BAU<ZL2BAU<ZL3VML
Sent: 040306/1144Z @:ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC #:20462 [Chch-NZ] FBB7.00i $:2972-ZL3AI
From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: RE: stir up the path pot!
From: Steve Dimse <k4hg@tapr.org>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:51:17 -0500
X-Message-Number: 96
On 3/4/04 at 8:20 PM Robert Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu> sent:
>>Find a solution that factually fixes the problem, and does not
>>cause innocent people to suffer, even if it is harder to implement.
>
>We've been talking about that for 10 years and still no progress.
>Time to try something different... Thus, this new neat idea...
Wait, wwe could buy a nuclear bomb from Russia, and nuke these troublesome
people out of existance. Sure a few innocent people might get hurt, but
we'd finally be rid of this 10 year thorn in your side!
Steve K4HG
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: stir up the path pot!
From: "Steve Wilson" <kf6wax@cox.net>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:54:31 -0700
X-Message-Number: 97
Bob,
we started this with a mobile running WIDE7-7 and was a tiny tracker!
You cant blame UiView for that as very few mobiles run that program or any
other compared to static stations.
UiView does not come with a "Pre Loaded Path", the user has to define what
their path would or should be!
"THE PASSION" is in the cinema and not on this list or is it? <G>
I have seen good ideas and bad ideas and some came to me direct! example
simplex?
I have so far have NOT been flamed....that may be down to the cost of gas
right now, but have tried with elmering (the first approach) then the paddle
to the Butt approach and maybe the wall of shame is the answer?
Steve's errors list seems to have cut down a lot of junk, maybe Steve could
devise a national wall of shame?
You hit this list AND EVERYONE WILL XLIST YOU!
73s
Steve, KF6WAX Phoenix Valley Area Igate
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: stir up the path pot!
From: "Spider" <spider@rivcom.net>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:02:10 -0700
X-Message-Number: 98
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu>
>>How do you combat operators who run WIDE7-7?
>
>Some of the problem is because now 70% of all
>software used on APRS is now UIview. And
>UIview began in Europe where RELAY7-7, WIDE7-7
>and TRACE 7-7 are common use.
Bob,
No, UI-View is not part of the problem! UI-VIEW, nor any software are the
GUN! There is nothing in UI-View to cause or suggest to the user to use
anything! And, it even suggests you can leave the unproto path blank and it
will default to APRS.
However, there are pages that suggest people use WIDE7-7 and they have been
advertized on Sig's with users world wide.
Shame Shame Shame.
I run an Igate and I am in the middle of several Igates any were from 140
miles to 300 miles apart. My Igate does not need to be gating WIDE7-5 or
WIDE7-4 or WIDE7-3 or WIDE7-2 or WIDE7-1 or WIDE7 because it is highly
likely another 1 or more igates have already gated it to the IS.....there
is no technical reason that I know of as to why I should gate it again and
add to the mess...possibly to only be duped out on the IS...or because of
the time difference between the first packet received 2 states away....my
received packet appears on the IS. Now, if someone were LOCAL to me (I
define LOCAL as two hops in my area), and they are sending out WIDE7-7, I'd
gate WIDE7-7 and WIDE7-6, because it's possible for those to be LOCAL to
me. I can related this all to WIDE6-6 and WIDE5-5 transmissions too.
Jim, WA6OFT
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: stir up the path pot!
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 23:09:17 -0500
X-Message-Number: 99
>>>"Steve Wilson" said:
>
>maybe Steve could devise a national wall of shame?
Nope, that *is* doing exactly the wrong thing. That is trying to apply one
rule everywhere and that is just plain wrong. And we all agree to that.
There are places where WIDE5-5 is needed as routine and there are places
where WIDE3-3 is TOO MUCH.
The solution I was trying to come up with assigned the RULE at the LOCAL
IGate. Local evaluation of what is good or bad is the only way to apply
"rules" if any...
de WB4APR, Bob
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: stir up the path pot!
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 23:16:05 -0500
X-Message-Number: 100
>>>"Spider" <spider@rivcom.net> 3/4/04 10:02:10 PM >>>
>No, UI-View is not part of the problem!
>UI-VIEW, nor any software are the GUN!
>There is nothing in UI-View to cause or suggest
>to the user to use anything!
THAT IS THE PROBLEM. From day-1 it was assumed that client software would
HELP the user select a path and would CAUTION him against BAD paths. It
would still let him use a bad path, but it would warn him on each and every
packet sent.
This was fundamental to APRS. Also since Day-1 I have repeatedly asked the
authors to include this guidance in their software. A window that pops up
warning the user when he selects an improper path.
This is EASY To do. 7-7 is BAD. Warn him. But allow him to use it if he
needs it. But then also ANALYZE the channel and change the warning
threshold based on what is going on. APRSdos has done this from day one.
It constantly assesses channel load and what the current path selection is
and FLASHES a warning if it thinks the user is being excessive. THis is
not violating anyone's right to use what ever he wants, but the WARNINGS
are there to help the person thta doesnt realize what he is doing.
That is the fix. If every author would include these warnings based on
need. Then the problem would go away. As it is now, a user can use
WIDE7-7 and get NO FEEDBACK that this is probably not wise...
de WB4APR, Bob
---
END OF DIGEST
Read previous mail | Read next mail
| |
