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ZL3AI > APRDIG 21.02.04 17:39l 255 Lines 9186 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: Re: APRS Map Manager Submittals
From: "J. Lance Cotton" <joe@lightningflash.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 16:02:45 -0600
X-Message-Number: 23
Apparently this is a hard concept to wrap our heads around. I made the same
misunderstanding!
Steve isn't asking us to upload maps, just to upload information about where
to find maps and some metadata about those maps.
For instance, a GEO file contains a URL to a GIF as well as the extents of
the world which that GIF covers. The GIF does not go to APRS-MM, but the
data about where to find it does.
(I hope this is the correct understanding!)
-Lance KJ5O
--
J. Lance Cotton, KJ5O
http://map.findu.com/kj5o-14
joe@lightningflash.net
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Subject: Re: APRS Map Manager Submittals
From: "J. Lance Cotton" <joe@lightningflash.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 16:10:14 -0600
X-Message-Number: 24
>Apparently this is a hard concept to wrap our heads around. I made the same
>misunderstanding!
>
>Steve isn't asking us to upload maps, just to upload information about where
>to find maps and some metadata about those maps.
>
>For instance, a GEO file contains a URL to a GIF as well as the extents of
>the world which that GIF covers. The GIF does not go to APRS-MM, but the
>data about where to find it does.
Open mouth, Insert foot. Steve does want our maps, just not mine (being in
shapefile format) unless APRS-MM gets a shapefile->raster module.
Sorry to confuse and speak too quickly.
--
J. Lance Cotton, KJ5O
http://map.findu.com/kj5o-14
joe@lightningflash.net
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Subject: Re: APRS Map Manager Submittals
From: Jeff King <jeff@aerodata.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 17:10:52 -0500
X-Message-Number: 25
Lance:
The GPL is not a hard concept to wrap your head around, and I think my
question was valid. If it was a misunderstanding, I'm sure Steve will let
me know.
In other words...
I just wanted to know if this is a public domain project, meaning, if I
wanted to, I could run my own fully functional, fully stocked, map manager
if I so chose, including all the data submitted to it.
I doubt if I would, but I'm more likely to support a GPL project then a
closed project. That is what I was asking.
--
Jeff King, jeff@aerodata.net on 02/19/2004
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Subject: Re: APRS Map Manager Submittals
From: Jeff King <jeff@aerodata.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 17:23:41 -0500
X-Message-Number: 26
Long answer to a short question. I'll try and be brief
On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 17:00:38 -0500, Steve Dimse wrote:
>On 2/19/04 at 4:41 PM Jeff King <jeff@aerodata.net> sent:
>
>>What about ownership of submitted maps? Will they remain in the
>>public domain (assuming they were in the first place) or will
>>ownership revert to yourself?
>>
>I've never claimed copyright of any data or image produced by findU,
>where I would be entitled to do so, so I'd hope it would be obvious
>am not going to do so with maps where others hold the copyright.
OK, then why not change the phrase
"and agree to its unlimited distribution by aprs.net" to:
"and agree to its unlimited distribution"
and then place the accepted maps in a public directory on source forge? That
way, if you get hit by a bus, someone else could set up a server. This is
keeping in the spirit of the GPL.
I understand the rest of your monologue about copyright and liability issues.
It was conferring rights to your property aprs.net, and not the larger GPL
community that raised the question.
>>I see some talk of this on your main page (that it will be GPL'ed)
>>but not entirely clear you mean the map data or the positional
>>data.
>>
>I'm not asking anyone to make their maps available under the GPL, or
>give up any other rights to them, only to allow "unlimited
>distribution by aprs.net".
Understand. One can hold a copyright and confer use to the community at
large. But you don't, you only confer use to your property aprs.net. What
if James wants to use some of the maps and host them locally? GPL means
everybody, not just amateur radio or k4hg. A mapserver without any data is
not that useful, and the idea (I thought) was to put the entire
functionality of the project in the public domain.
>>Also, what is your sourceforge and/or GPL home page?
>>
>It was announced on the sig a few days ago:
>
>http://sourceforge.net/projects/aprsmapserv/
Thanks, sourceforge was down earlier and I couldn't search for it. That
would be a good place to post the links and/or map files.
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Subject: Re: APRS Map Manager Submittals
From: Steve Dimse <k4hg@tapr.org>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 17:25:45 -0500
X-Message-Number: 27
On 2/19/04 at 4:02 PM J. Lance Cotton <joe@lightningflash.net> sent:
>Apparently this is a hard concept to wrap our heads around. I made the same
>misunderstanding!
I'm probably not explaining well, as I'm concentrating on getting the code
done rather than on providing clear explanations.
>Steve isn't asking us to upload maps, just to upload information about where
>to find maps and some metadata about those maps.
No, APRS format maps are uploaded...these can be Mac/WinAPRS, PocketAPRS,
or APRSdos. There is no particular reason why shapefiles cannot be added,
but, and it is a big but, someone needs to write code (or more likely
modify code from something like MapServer) to render the map into png or
gif.
>For instance, a GEO file contains a URL to a GIF as well as the extents of
>the world which that GIF covers. The GIF does not go to APRS-MM, but the
>data about where to find it does.
It can be either way. For example, if you have a geo file for a radar, that
image will change, so you would submit just the geo file. On the other
hand, if you had produced an image with mapserver, you would upload both
the geo file and the image file.
Steve K4HG
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Subject: Re: APRS Map Manager Submittals
From: Steve Dimse <k4hg@tapr.org>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 17:34:42 -0500
X-Message-Number: 28
On 2/19/04 at 5:23 PM Jeff King <jeff@aerodata.net> sent:
>Long answer to a short question. I'll try and be brief
>
>On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 17:00:38 -0500, Steve Dimse wrote:
>>On 2/19/04 at 4:41 PM Jeff King <jeff@aerodata.net> sent:
>>
>>>What about ownership of submitted maps? Will they remain in the
>>>public domain (assuming they were in the first place) or will
>>>ownership revert to yourself?
>>>
>>I've never claimed copyright of any data or image produced by findU,
>>where I would be entitled to do so, so I'd hope it would be obvious
>>am not going to do so with maps where others hold the copyright.
>
>OK, then why not change the phrase
>
>"and agree to its unlimited distribution by aprs.net" to:
>"and agree to its unlimited distribution"
Because that forces the user to give away all the rights. I will change it
to APRS Map Manager though to be more clear that you needn't be withing the
aprs.net domain to distribute them (though I've always given names in that
domain to anyone that asks).
>and then place the accepted maps in a public directory on source forge? That
>way, if you get hit by a bus, someone else could set up a server. This is
>keeping in the spirit of the GPL.
Again, mostly this is a lack of documentation as I'm concentrating on
programming, to know this you would have had to look at the URLs generated
in the cover.cgi page, but the map directories are publicly accessible:
http://mm.aprs.net/maps/pending/
Any of a hundred mirroring tools would snag the whole bunch anytime you want.
Eventually there will also be a daily tar of all the maps and the output of
mysqldump on the database.
>I understand the rest of your monologue about copyright and liability issues.
>It was conferring rights to your property aprs.net, and not the larger GPL
>community that raised the question.
OK, but again, I am not going to force anyone to conform to any specific
license terms other than letting me place them on APRS MM.
>>http://sourceforge.net/projects/aprsmapserv/
>
>Thanks, sourceforge was down earlier and I couldn't search for it. That would
>be a good place to post the links and/or map files.
They will be, just a metter of time to get things done, the focus is on
getting map support to the remainder of the world that has been orphaned.
Steve K4HG
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Subject: winaprs map file ?
From: "Beau" <n9mfk@comcast.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 17:42:57 -0500
X-Message-Number: 29
hi all I am new to the group
I have a set of winaprs .map files for the state of FL.
they go down to street level they are broke down by county I know if I hold
ctrl you can click on the map name an it will load that county
is there an software I can you to take the counties
I wet an make 1 big .map file for winaprs
thanks for any info n9mfk
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