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ZL3AI > APRDIG 14.02.04 13:11l 286 Lines 11604 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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Subj: TAPR Digest, Feb 12, 2/5
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From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: Re: question about 'timestamping' with IGATEd traffic to APRS-IS
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 08:18:20 -0500
X-Message-Number: 9
Back in 1995, we changed APRS to remove PC time stamps from all packets
unless explicitly required. All data is to be time-stmped on receipt. The
only format that always has a time stamp is the OBJECT format, because it
is required to know when the object was posted at that location, not when
it was received.
de WB4APR
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Subject: Re: Why Is It? New WinDoze User
From: Mark Cheavens <mcheavens@usa.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 07:26:03 -0600
X-Message-Number: 10
I am going to go WAY out on a limb here and make some assumptions (since it
doesn't make much sense to me either).
1. He is coming "back" to running Windows from a MAC.
2. The zip (or whatever extension) he is "saving" is after a download and
is has nothing associated with it.
3. Word (or wordpad!) is opening the file since there is no association.
4. He does not have the extensions visible.
5. I could keep going on and on......
Mark
KC5EVE
At 12:23 AM 2/12/2004 -0800, you wrote:
>Matthew Stennett wrote on 2/11/2004, 9:41 PM:
>
>>Ihave recently come back to running a WinDoze based OS
>>computer and find every time I try to save a copy of WinAPRS 272 it
>>is saved by the computer in a WORD file, and NOT an UNZippablepable one?
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Subject: telemetry 'timestamping'
From: "Sadowski, Allan" <allan.sadowski@ncshp.org>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 08:41:59 -0500
X-Message-Number: 11
Because I do a lot of telemetry, I have to add my 2 cents.
Frankly I don't care what the transport medium is... IS, RF, or carrier
pigeon... for most telemetry... if you don't know when the data sample
was taken... or it cannot be extrapolated... then it's usually much less
useful. After all, usually you want to correlate sampled data with
events, other sampled data, or some other measure... and without time
information for when the samples were taken... it's usually far less
useful.
It should be obvious, but then I do data collection... and I guess it's
not so obvious.
NOW, I'm not talking about the situation for many on the APRS IS where
it's of "interest"... rather I'm talking about the scenario where it's
of USE!
SO, my suggestion, is that if you have telemetry, and you expect it to
merely be of interest... then do whatever the APRS Graybeards ;) here
say.
BUT, my suggestion (from a Telemetry Graybeard), is that if you have
telemetry, and you want it to be of USE - YOU TIMESTAMP IT AT THE SAMPLE
LOCATION. I also suggest (from past mistake) that you use Zulu/GMT/UCT
(whatever you want to call it) - AND you put a date on it. This
eliminates time zone, daylight savings time, what day/month/year (I
prefer Julian date... but that's a personal problem ;). Personally,
when you get into networks of sensors (my favorite)... then you'd better
have a location associated with the data (coordinate or at least a
callsign table to coordinate)...
So, with the above suggestions... you can have it your way if it's just
of interest. But if you want it to be useful beyond the (relatively)
current moment... then accurately time stamp it and locate it...
My 2 cents.
ALOHA
AH6LS
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Subject: Alinco DJ-S11, Tx Audio, PTT...
From: "Rick Bolen \(HM\)" <rickbol@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 09:03:34 -0500
X-Message-Number: 12
Hello all,
I'm trying to use the DJ-S11 as my APRS radio port under APRSd (Debian Linux
3.0). I'm using John Hansen's (W2FS) TNC-X as a KISS mode interface to
APRSd. I'm having a problem interfacing the S11's mic jack (3/32" TRS) with
the TNC-X's outputs for Gnd\TxAux\PTT. Due to flea-power and duty cycle
concerns, this port will not be digipeating, and mostly just monitoring on
rcv with occasional beacon & msg xmit.
While John didn't have info on the DJ-S11 specifically, he sent me a link to
a wiring diagram for the DJ-F1 that, he explained, was typical for tnc\HT
interfacing. The diagram shows the Tx\PTT connection is made via a
2-connection jack (Tip\Sleeve):
http://www.packetradio.com/!TNCables/022A.gif
The S11 utilizes a TRS jack for the mic input. I'm confused by the S11's
schematic, as the surrounding circuitry to this TRS jack suggests that it is
not a trivial "mic-element\switch" substitution.
I've tried connecting the tnc's TxAud\PTT in both orientations on the Tip
and Ring of the mic jack (Sleeve is ground). One orientation allows PTT to
trigger, but no audio passes thru (except for a low frequency "thump" at the
conclusion of Tx). The other orientation allows audio to pass, but Tx
remains "on" all the time (PTT has no control).
Can anyone explain what needs to be wired up to get this to work?
I'd also like to defeat squelch, if someone happens to know that trick as
well... but that is of lesser concern.
Thanks,
Rick
kg4ofo
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Subject: Re: Why Is It? New WinDoze User
From: "Kurt O. Jauss" <kf6hjo@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 07:16:47 -0800
X-Message-Number: 13
I have noticed that after upgrading Netscape from 4.7 to 7.1 if I download
programs off the web Netscape wants to save the file as a .DOC file. I
just quit using Netscape for downloading and Internet Explorer instead.
Kurt
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Subject: Re: question about 'timestamping' with IGATEd traffic to APRS-IS
From: "Curt, WE7U" <archer@eskimo.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 08:01:47 -0800 (PST)
X-Message-Number: 14
On Wed, 11 Feb 2004, James Jefferson wrote:
>aprsworld behaves the same way as findu and timestamps when the packet enters
>the database. Many timestamps are garbage and there isn't a good way to
>determine which ones are and which are not. So just think of it as a the
>database timestamp, not the packet time stamp.
Xastir behaves in a similar manner. The timestamp you'll see is the time
at which the packet was received.
I'm not even sure whether we parse/save the packet timestamps, but we might
save it in some cases. If so, I don't think we provide a way to display
the saved value, so it's a moot point at present.
We could certainly change things around a bit if you end up batching up
opentrac packets. I wouldn't want to have them all timestamped the same in
that case.
--
Curt, WE7U archer at eskimo dot com
Arlington, WA, USA http://www.eskimo.com/~archer
"Lotto: A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown
"Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U
"The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!"
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Subject: Re: question about 'timestamping' with IGATEd traffic to APRS-IS
From: "Curt, WE7U" <archer@eskimo.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 08:05:17 -0800 (PST)
X-Message-Number: 15
On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Robert Bruninga wrote:
>Back in 1995, we changed APRS to remove PC time stamps from all packets
>unless explicitly required. All data is to be time-stmped on receipt.
>The only format that
>always has a time stamp is the OBJECT format, because it is required to
>know when
>the object was posted at that location, not when it was received. de
>WB4APR
I'm a relative latecomer to APRS, so wasn't involved with it in 1995. Are
these assumptions in the spec? I don't recall seeing them there, but I
haven't delved deeply into it lately either.
If not in the spec, are they listed on your Errata page?
--
Curt, WE7U archer at eskimo dot com
Arlington, WA, USA http://www.eskimo.com/~archer
"Lotto: A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown
"Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U
"The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!"
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Subject: Re: question about 'timestamping' with IGATEd trafficto APRS-IS
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 12:00:12 -0500
X-Message-Number: 16
>>>Mike Galgano <mgalgano@nanosecond.com> 2/12/04 11:23:25 AM >>>
My 'beef' is that we (often) ... timestamp using the GPS time within the
data of the packet, and it isn't used by anybody.
REPLY: Then they should. When we removed the time stamp back in 1995 from
most formats, then the *assumption* was that then any timestamp that WAS
included MUST be honored.
I guess we assumed this was so obvious, that it didnt get written into the
spec. So I say to authors, that if their software does not honor
timestamps in packets, then they need to patch their code.
Thanks for brinning this to my attention...
de WB4APR, Bob
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Subject: Re: question about 'timestamping' with IGATEd traffic to APRS-IS
From: "Curt, WE7U" <archer@eskimo.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 09:04:17 -0800 (PST)
X-Message-Number: 17
One of the things that Scott has mentioned before has my interest (and it's
been a long time since he mentioned it): The capability of portable
stations to store up a bunch of positions, then blast them all at once to
the incident command post when an RF path is found between them. This
might be when the returning team gets into near line-of-site with the ICP,
or when another team crests a ridge between them, thereby providing a
temporary digi.
Keeping detailed tracks of search teams would then be more of a
possibility, without having to wait for the teams to get back to the ICP to
have their tracks downloaded. That speeds up planning for the next
operational period, as well as providing near real-time data for use in
directing the teams currently in the field.
No, it's not real-time tactical that way, but it's a whole lot more
real-time than waiting four to six hours (or more) for the team to get
back. It also takes a load off the mapping guys at ICP as they don't have
to try to flag down the GPS-carrying team members as they come back in, or
delay the team members any more than necessary ('cuz you don't have to
spend time with each GPS).
The guys at base, once they get the teams deployed during an operational
period, start planning for the next op-period. Having near real-time data
as to the areas searched (and whether the team is even in the area they're
to be covering) helps greatly in planning the next period. If we have to
wait for the GPS'es to come out of the field, we miss a great opportunity
for saving time. We can apply the data learned to planning the very next
op-period, instead of waiting for the GPS track data and applying the
knowledge several hours after that when next teams go out.
We also like to keep good track of our teams, and using either APRS or
OpenTrac would cut down on the voice chatter that we do just to keep tabs
on our people.
I'm not sure if Scott is currently working on those ideas, but they are
still of great interest to me and some of the reasons I wanted to play with
OpenTrac.
--
Curt, WE7U archer at eskimo dot com
Arlington, WA, USA http://www.eskimo.com/~archer
"Lotto: A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown
"Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U
"The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!"
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