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ZL3AI > APRDIG 19.12.03 11:22l 247 Lines 10280 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: Re: Holiday Traveling = 144.39 CTCSS 100
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:17:37 -0500 (EST)
X-Message-Number: 24
On Tue, 16 Dec 2003, Keith Allen asked about VOICE ALERT:
>Can I presume that when the ctcss 100 is engaged on both sides (xmit and
>rx) of the D-700 or D7 , that the only APRS traffic that will make it
>into my radio (TMD-700) are the ones from stations also using the 100
>ctcss tone?
No, ALL packet stations will still be heard by the TM-D700 APRS radio
because the internal TNC is connected before the CTCSS squelch.
>In other words local digipeaters and such that receive my signal will
>not be able to send back due to the 100 hx tone on my receive side.
No, APRS continues to work normally. That is the beauty of VOICE ALERT.
It is like getting a 3rd free radio in the car. Since you are on APRS,
everyone knows you are also monitoring 144.39 for VOICE ALERT with CTCSS
100, so no matter what you are doing on any other freq, they can still
always call you quickly with PL 100 on 144.39 and ask you what freq you
are on or ask you to QSY to their working voice channel...
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Subject: Catching that DX
From: "Andy Pritchard" <apritch@blueyonder.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 17:32:58 -0000
X-Message-Number: 25
Hi All
If you looking to capture DX from APRS take a look UI-Path32 from my
website. It will work with
Either UI-View, AGW, UI-View32 or Internet Stream (maybe not so great for DX
on the internet)
73 - Andy, M0CYP
UI-View http://welcome.to/uiview
Propagation http://welcome.to/dxradio
Prop. Mon. 144.800 Mhz - Telford - IO82SQ
XBox GamerTag: AndyAndy
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Subject: Re: Open source licensing
From: "Sean \\The RIMBoy\\" <sean@rimboy.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 11:19:29 -0600 (CST)
X-Message-Number: 26
This will be my last response to this portion of the thread. I've been in
these types of "discussions" long enough to know that they end up nowhere
except name calling (we've already invoked Marx).
On Tue, 16 Dec 2003, Jeff King wrote:
>
>Blind Ideology is what will get the thread shut down.
Practice what you preach! I alluded above that this is not the first time
I've been in these discussions. The fact of the matter is the BSD crowd
always calls the GPL all sorts of names (Marxist, poison, etc). The fact
of the matter is GPL programmers I've dealt with are more than happy to
deal with BSD.
Answer me this (and probably best off list) why is it the BSD's use GCC,
a GPL compiler?
>LinkSys/Cisco is a better example. They are a product company. And they
>are being accused of being in violation of the GPL. The WRT54G wireless
>router is based on Linux and they (LinkSys) are in violation of the GPL.
>Do a search on google with WRT54G and GPL and you'll see what I mean.
My point exactly. By using GPL software they had to agree to the terms
set forth. Their distribution of their products without the code is in
violation. They made a conscience decision to use GPL software.
If they wanted to do what they wanted to do then they should have chosen
one of the BSD's. For whatever reason they did not. As a result, they
are bound to the terms of the GPL. That's not a failure on the GPL's
part.
The thing is, the Linksys code they've developed (ie, proprietary drivers)
can still be protected if they had taken the time to do their homework.
As it stands, the FSF is negotiating with Linksys.
http://tinyurl.com/zhkz
>It is not "free" if you have to hand out your labor for free.
But is that not exactly what you're doing with the BSD license? As the
original author you're not only handing out your code for free, but you're
telling people to take it and profit off of it without you seeing a dime.
>That is why it is a poison pill. See the hopla about the WRT54G and the
>(empty) threats of law suites against LinkSys.
We're straying from the merit of the thread though, that is as an original
author what license you should use for your code. Linksys should have
chosen one of the BSD's.
>GPL is just plain stupid for any software author who wants to make money. The
>GPL only makes sense when you want to sabotage others in not using your code
>in their products for profit, as it is hard to make a profit when you are
>required to give away things for free.
I have a hard time allowing someone taking my code, making it into a
closed product and selling it for profit. I'd say the BSD license is just
as stupid (your terms) if you want to make money. At least I have the
knowledge that people can profit off of my code and with luck, I'll see
some of that profit in return (that being bug fixes, patches, etc). No,
that's not always the case though and it's a rarity. But it does happen.
>I don't have a problem with this, as it is a matter of choice, but lets just
>be clear about the motives involved. To me, profit is not a dirty word, even
>when someone besides me is making it.
Profit too is not a dirty word, but I don't want work I've created to
become part of a closed source product.
>Now, what did I say about Marxism? I can say alot of bad things about
>MicroSoft, but one of them would not be about how they runs their business.
They were found guilty. I'm merely stating fact. Again, GCC. What's the
deal?
>I'm one of these funny amateur radio operators who thinks that
>capitalism is a good word.
I'm all about it too. I just think it's funny that a community that's as
cheap as they are (I'm one of them) still clings to these old ways of
thinking that every little thing they do they should charge an outrageous
sum of money for. The Tinytraks (with some misgivings about the
programming interface) and John's projects are all steps in the right
direction towards pushing products that cost little. I doubt Byon would
have sold as many as he has if he charged $50 to $100.
>>The BSD license allows others to do with your code as they see fit
>>without returning those changes back to the original author.
>i.e. it is really open source!! No strings attached. So what your really
>saying is the BSD license helped create the most wealth of the 20th century.
>Not bad I would say.
No, I'm not saying that and I don't know where you get that. I think in
some cases it shows a lack of creativity for someone to take software and
start calling it their own.
>I'm not arguing. I clearly said the GPL was Marxism.
No you're not arguing. You're clearly being practicing the blind ideology
you seem to be railing against. It's typical of the BSD crowd
unfortunately to reduce themselves to name calling.
>The GPL license is not well suited to businesses nor to him making any
>money off the code. http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html
I disagree and I'll leave it at that.
>IBM is a HARDWARE and SERVICE company. They use Linux to sell their HARDWARE
>and SERVICES.
IBM is a software company also. AIX for example. No, it's not GPL'd but
it's clear that GPL'd software is seeing benefits from AIX. JFS came from
AIX and OS/2 IIRC. IBM dropped most if not all of their internal web
server development and pushed those resources towards Apache. Why?
Because it's cheaper for IBM to support and *contribute* to a project with
a good track record rather than having to maintain a codebase that
invariably will not keep up and will as Microsoft has proven time and time
again, be easily exploited.
The fact of the matter is the software is no good if there's no hardware
to run it on. So IBM is able to use Linux to sell their hardware?
Where's the problem? Is this not what John wants to do? He wants to sell
his hardware. The question becomes, what license for the software. I've
read the other emails posted to this list that do a much better job of
explaining the decisions John has to make than your email(s). Labeling
GPL Marxist is one sided as best, especially from a group that uses the
GCC compiler.
>>What about SGI? Dell seems to be avoiding it too.
>
>Hardware and services again.
SGI is software. They're selling clusters and developing under linux to
support these clusters. In addition, they've contributed the XFS file
system. Dell has always been a hardware company.
Again, these companies are selling Linux to move their hardware. Where's
the problem? Do you have a problem because they're not shipping FreeBSD?
>Software companies that are interested in making money. Like MicroSoft and
>even public universities, like the University of California:
>
>http://www.opensource.org/licenses/bsd-license.php
But yet the Samba and MySQL groups all seem to be doing well. It's a
little hard to argue the BSD license in the college sense when that's
where the license originated from.
>Look how much shorter the BSD one is. Amazing how many words the GPL uses to
>say something is "free" when the BSD one can say it is free so much more
>succiently. I understand the Soviet Constitution was quite wordly also when
>they described how "free" their citizens where as well.
This frankly is the most amazing arguement I've ever heard put forth.
>I was. I don't think the GPL is well suited for a project of this type.
Calling it Marxist is you're arguement?
>I was just suggesting in both cases the BSD license would make the most
>sense
If that's your "suggestion" then it could have been made as such and not
anti-GPL screed. Others have pointed out in much better terms without the
labeling.
>The word "free" has little to do with the GPL. Free is free. Period.
Free has everything to do with the GPL.
You'll probably get this in whole, I have a feeling the list may reject
because of too many quoted lines.
This is all I'll debate with you on the list for this portion of the
thread.
Sean...
--
The punk rock will get you if the government don't get you first.
--Old 97's
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
KG4NRC http://www.rimboy.com Your source for the crap you know you need.
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