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ZL3AI > APRDIG 19.12.03 11:22l 248 Lines 10862 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: RE: Open source licensing
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@3xf.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 10:38:15 -0800
X-Message-Number: 27
>Open Source forbids such restrictions:
So I don't get the OSI seal of approval. I think Modified BSD with a
non-commercial clause is still a heck of a lot better than what's out there
now.
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Subject: Re: Open source licensing
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@3xf.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 10:57:50 -0800
X-Message-Number: 28
> 1. I spent a lot of time (and frankly a lot of money) developing
>TNC-X. At a minimum I'd like to recoup the money I spent, and I think it
>would be nice if I got compensated to some extent for my time as
>well. With the last product I tried to sell, I didn't even recoup the out
>of pocket costs ... and this could easily happen to you to, if you misjudge
I hear that. Not counting capital investment in equipment and development
tools, I've spent a few hundred bucks already on this ~$20 kit. And if you
were to count my time at even the discounted GSA rates I usually bill at for
military work at my day job, that's thousands in labor. I don't mind
donating that labor to the community, but it'd be nice to make up my
out-of-pocket expenses at least.
But it's also important to me that ham clubs and SAR teams should be able to
build their own kits, and that balloonatics should be able to make custom
boards to do all the extra things they need to do. To this end, I think
it's reasonable to impose an attribution, non-commercial license on the
code. Such a license would benefit a lot of people. And who would it harm?
If you're an established kit vendor, I'll be happy to work something out and
negotiate an alternate license.
> 1. My worst nightmare is that someone would modify it and then somehow
>either suggest that I should support the modified design or that something
>I did caused it to fail. I will admit that my worries about this issue
>have diminished substantially as I thought about the specific circumstances
>under which this could occur and how I could specifically avoid them.
Leave it to the lawyers to spoil our fun. The BSD license at least comes
with a big bold-print disclaimer of any and all warranties.
>to forget about broader commercial applications. We simply don't have
>enough legal clout that a larger company would have to pay any attention to
>us. Even if some commercial company stole a design outright, we don't have
>the resources to legally contest it. For example, Software 2000's design
In my case, the amount of money involved probably wouldn't be worth the
company paying their lawyer to answer my cease-and-desist letter. Why steal
it when it can be bought cheap? For major projects like the
software-defined radio, I'd imagine it's another matter.
Scott
N1VG
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Subject: Suggestions on Rotor Control
From: "Michael Hatzakis, Jr" <mikehatzakis@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 12:29:02 -0800 (PST)
X-Message-Number: 29
A few months ago I asked you guys for suggestions on a rotor control
system. I think I subsequently reviewed most all the systems on the
market. I have been real busy lately, so I decided not to build an
FODTrack. After all the reviews I read, I ordered the "Antenna Rotator
System (ARS)" made by Pablo Garcia, EA4TX based on a suggestion here on
AMSAT-BB. It is a board-only, not a complete system. I purchased this
system based on the availability of 10 and 12 bit A/D and it's very wide
compatibility list and relatively low cost. It plugs right into the back
of my G-5500 with 1:1 wiring (ie., didnt have to open the controller,
yeeah) and plugs right into a parallel port. Another strong positive,
since I have an 8port serial adapter almost all filled up...!
I have to say, I am really impressed with this little thing and would
strongly endorse anyone wanting satellite or EME control to consider this
unit with the 12bit A/D option.
One measure of how well designed a product is, how far along I can get
without reading the manual. It was a snap to configure, calibrate and
operate the supporting software. It works seamlessly with Satscape using
WispDDE. It works extremely well tracking Sats in real time and is fun to
watch in operation. It has watchdog timing to protect against rotor
binding or jams. The manual is really good and except for Pablo's fun use
of the english language, it is an extremely well written guide.
So, there it is. I am now routinely on AO-7 and FO-29 using my pair of 18'
beams...! Visit: http://www.ea4tx.com/products/ars.htm
I have photos available of the completed system if anyone wants.
Michael K3MH
Michael Hatzakis, Jr MD
Physiatrist, Treating Individuals with Neuromuscular Disabilities
Consultant, Information Technology Based Health Care Solutions
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Subject: Re: Suggestions on Rotor Control
From: "Michael Hatzakis, Jr" <mikehatzakis@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 12:30:34 -0800 (PST)
X-Message-Number: 30
Ooops, I mistakenly sent this to the APRS list. Sorry...!
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Subject: OT: Looking for a pager...
From: "Mike Yetsko" <myetsko@insydesw.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 15:27:26 -0500
X-Message-Number: 31
I'm looking for a pager. Something stand alone that I can tie to with a PC
and send a text message to a unit about a mile away.
I thought Radio Shack used to carry one, but the only thing I can see there
is just a 'beeper', not something I can send a message with.
Hmm, can I tie to Nextell phones?
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Subject: Power Poles Double Duty
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 15:46:25 -0500 (EST)
X-Message-Number: 32
Preping for Holiday Travels, I put Power Pole DC connectors on a 6'
pigtail CIG-Lighter plug and on another 6' cable set with Battery Clips.
Not only can they run my toys either way, but, being sexless, can plug
into each other and serve as a car-to-car battery charger (not jump
starter). Just let the charging car run for 2 minutes and you'll get
plenty of juice for one crank of the dead car's battery...(at nominal
temps). Colder takes longer.
DISCLAIMER: Dont do anything stupid, and carry some extra 10 amp CIG fuses.
Bob
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Subject: TNC Cables Yaseu and Icom same ?
From: Richard Garcia <k4gps@bellsouth.net>
Date: 16 Dec 2003 15:48:49 -0500
X-Message-Number: 33
I know that a lot of the various rigs are the same in pinouts, at least
with the HT's. Are the Yaseu and Icom 8 Pin Modular mics the same ? I
have a Icom hooked up and want to use a Yaseu, I don't have manuals for
either radio since one has been wired for 2 years and the other would be
a loaner radio. The Icom is a 2100H and the Yaseu I believe is the 2500.
Thanks,
Rich
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Subject: Re: Open source licensing
From: Jeff King <jeff@aerodata.net>
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 16:02:09 -0500
X-Message-Number: 34
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 11:19:29 -0600 (CST), Sean \\The RIMBoy\\ wrote:
>This will be my last response to this portion of the thread.
Oh, that is just so priceless. So, I'll just summarize you points since you
are apparently cutting and running:
1. That what I am saying represents the "BSD crowd" (2 references to this)
Never run BSD, but am familiar with the license. My views represent the
views of a single small business person. We don't know who you are. Are you a
college student who has never had to support themselves? An employee of
another company? A small business person? Independently wealthy? Perspective
makes a difference here.
2. LinkSys/Cisco is in violation of the GPL.
We both agree here. But you didn't see my point. We live in a world of laws,
and a bunch of geeks whining on usenet that LinkSys is violation of the GPL
doesn't mean a hill of beans. It needs to be enforced, not talked about being
enforced. The fact of the matter is, the GPL does exactly the opposite of
what it is intended to do (stop others from profiting from your work). It
(the GPL) is like holding a carrot out to a horse, but telling him not to
bite it. The LinkSys issue is just the tip of the iceburg. GPL license
violations are rampant, simply because plagurism is part of human nature, and
GPL doesn't mean anything unless it is enforced. You may not like that
statement, but I've seen so many commercial code examples (I do consulting)
where the previous author took snippets of GPL code. It (GPL) is a joke in
the business world. They either avoid it, work around it or steal it. And it
is not the "big corporations' doing it, it can just be a smuck in a cube
trying to save some time.
Better to give people a chance to be honest and reward the author then do go
down the path of GPL. Or if you worried about others profiting from your
work, then your best bet is to NOT RELEASE YOUR SOURCE.
3. GPL is free.
Yeah, right. GPL is just about as free as that "free toy" my kid got in the
happy meal at McDonalds. Problem was, I had to donate $4.00 of my labor for
that "free" toy. BSD/MIT is truly free where the only intent of the license
is to relieve liability of the author. Heck, looking at the toy, it appears
to have a BSD license molded into its side ;-)
Freedom doesn't take a 4 page contract to convey. That is why the BSD/MIT
license is so short, and the GPL license is so long.
4. The point of this thread.
I believe the modified BSD/MIT license would best suite these fellows making
products for amateur radio. They are selling these products, yet want to
promote hobbyist development of the products. They also use this hobby to
support itself, meaning, they like making money off it.
The GPL would be a poison pill for them in their efforts, if one of those
efforts was to profit from their work. A modified BSD license, and a little
common sense in licensing fees, IMHO, would suite them much better.
Case in point, I just paid someone $2000 for a piece of firmware sourcecode
(much more complicated then the code in question here). They had a modified
BSD license on their code. I could have used GPL code, doubt if I would have
gotten caught, but it was cr*p, and I avoid GPL anyways. In paying the money,
I knew I would get some level of support and the person was grounded in
reality. And yes, the code was free to hobbyist users, just $2K for
commercial users.
If GPL works for you, great. It just doesn't work for everyone.
73
Jeff
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