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ZL3AI > APRDIG 08.12.03 21:19l 200 Lines 8065 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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Subj: TAPR Digest, Dec 03, 2/2
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From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: Re: WX Station decode... Blame PEET!
From: wa6ylb@theworks.com
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 13:33:54 -0800 (PST)
X-Message-Number: 8
The extremely sad part is,
>>that *ONLY KENWOODS* dont decode this wx data - every other flavor
>>of APRS programs do. (including FINDU)
>
>Not disagreeing with Byron, but I find it annoying that the PEETS don't
>output an APRS-compatible data packet.
-----------
I suppose this is a good question.
But then we would have to ask - just why won't them darn GPS mfg's output
an APRS "over-the-air" spec format string too? I suppose this isn't going
to happen.
Being extremely resourceful, we just except whats there, and use it as is.
We feed raw GPS data stream, in ascii format, into our TNC's and now have a
tracker. We feed raw PEET station data into our TNC's and now have a stand
alone Wx stn.
Kenwoods and all APRS clients decode any GPS NMEA string without fuss or
arguement.
We decode it because thats whats presented to us. Hams are by in large a
cheap bunch. Just think how popular a tracker would have become if the APRS
world said that we had to have a PIC between the GPS and the TNC to work?
Why add a PIC to the mix when the clients can just decode the data from a
GPS directly?Kenwood even reprogrammed their D7 to a "G" model, because
some later built GPS units output one more decimal place of data in their
LAT/LONG then was availble when the D7 was made. We decode Peet's string in
everything but Kenwoods without fuss. Perhaps we need to ask Kenwood to fix
this bug.
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Subject: Re: Re: WX Station decode... Kenwoods
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@opentrac.org>
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 14:14:31 -0800
X-Message-Number: 9
>--> I'd say this is slightly exaggerated. APRSdos for example, which was
touted as running on a 4.77 Mhz XT and 8 Mhz AT's decoded all five WX
flavors just fine in the base 640K. In 1997, there were very few 600 Mhz
machines around. It's true that the programs could be upgraded easy in PC
applications. The Kenwoods could be upgraded in the field too, if Kenwood
decided that they wanted to be great sports and allow us to do such a thing.
Garmin used to only do upgrades to the firmware in the factory, like
Kenwoods does, but then decided that perhaps the user base was smart enough
to use a simple loaded program and prom image to flash their GPS's.
>It's purely a marketing decision.
I think this has come up before, and it was decided that the Kenwood
hardware would require physical replacement of EPROMs.
My question is, what ham hardware DOES support field-upgradeable firmware?
I can't think of any TNC or radio that I've ever used that was capable of
flash updates. Which is kind of surprising, since it's getting to be so
common in the consumer world. I think I've had to flash my CD-RW drive
half a dozen times for various bug fixes. My multifunction printer as
well.
I'm very glad I set aside the 384 bytes for a serial bootloader in the
OpenTracker. The config program accepts unmodified .s19 files, so I can go
straight from compiler to device without having to change cables or remove
the chip. Takes about 5 seconds to complete the transfer, and in the
probably hundreds of times I've done it during development it's never
failed.
Scott
N1VG
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Subject: Default parameters
From: "Scott Miller" <scott@opentrac.org>
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 14:34:31 -0800
X-Message-Number: 10
Ok, the OpenTracker's getting close to the point where I'll be releasing a
few units for beta testing. So no one comes back and bitches about it
later, I'd like input on the default parameters.
Currently, it's set to a callsign of NOCALL, txd of 200 msec, transmit
interval of 3 minutes (no smartbeacon yet), path of RELAY,WIDE, and symbol
'/.' ('dot', I think.) I suppose I could set it to not transmit until the
default callsign is changed, but people are likely to accept the rest
without thinking. Also, I plan to have warning messages for long paths -
anything WIDE5-5 or TRACE5-5 or greater is my plan currently. It's only
got three repeater slots, so you're not going to go beyond WIDE, WIDE, WIDE
that way. Any valid reason you'd want a longer static path than that?
Scott
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Subject: Re: WX Station decode... XXX-wood
From: Jeff King <jeff@aerodata.net>
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 16:56:24 -0600 (CST)
X-Message-Number: 11
Quoting Scott Miller <scott@opentrac.org>:
(on user upgradable firmware)
>I think this has come up before,
Yes, it comes up over and over on this SIG, in fact someone could take a 3
month vacation from the SIG and still see the same threads come up about
this ;- ). IMHO, it all boils down to respect for the customer, and that
respect is a process that starts at the design stage. Lets say, for
example, a company puts out a product before the APRS spec was adopted
and/or while it was being adopted. I'll let the reader decide if
non-customer changable firmware was a good idea, full well knowing this.
>My question is, what ham hardware DOES support field-upgradeable firmware?
>Ican't think of any TNC or radio that I've ever used that was capable
>of flash updates.
Radio's: TenTec http://www.rfsquared.com/ flash upgradeable
User upgradable TNC's: MFJ, TAPR, GLB, AEA, TimeWave, PacComm, Kantronics,
DRSI, Heathkit, Symek, etc...
Almost every TNC on the market is user upgradable, and if you where so
inclined, you could use a flash chip. Most used EPROM's simply because of
cost and/or they where designed in the 80's when flash was not a standard
process. But they still allowed user upgrades. It is NOT the technology,
but it is the RESPECT FOR THE CUSTOMER that is at question here. There are
many ways to skin a cat, or in this case make a product user upgradable.
All that is lacking is the will to do this, with certain companies. Don't
get me wrong, I don't have a problem with someone charging for their work,
but this is supposed to be a technical hobby, so user upgrades should be
the norm, even if the user has to pay for them.
>I'm very glad I set aside the 384 bytes for a serial bootloader in the
OpenTracker.
That is because you respect your potential customers.
You need a sig line Scott as I'm sure a few folks want to check your work
out:
http://www.opentrac.org/
73
-Jeff
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Subject: Re: WX Station decode... Kenwoods
From: "Mike Yetsko" <myetsko@insydesw.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 19:43:18 -0500
X-Message-Number: 12
>My question is, what ham hardware DOES support field-upgradeable firmware?
>Ican't think of any TNC or radio that I've ever used that was capable of
>flash updates. Which is kind of surprising, since it's getting to be so
>common in the consumer world. I think I've had to flash my CD-RW drive half
>adozen times for various bug fixes. My multifunction printer as well.
I know. In the PC industry it would be the kiss of death if one product
tried to NOT give away freebie firmware updates.
But as long as things like the TNCs are a limited market and they can
demand and get $50+ for a bug-fix upgrade, you won't see freebies.
I suspect we MIGHT have seen user upgradeable radios a while back if there
wasn't the backlash against ICOM for their 'SRAM' radios. But ICOM made a
serious mistake. EVERYTHING in SRAM, and when the battery died, your radio
died. No boot loader.
Mike
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Subject: MFJ-1270C and Peet 100
From: Bob Koerber <n4bk@hiwaay.net>
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 19:54:23 -0600
X-Message-Number: 13
Ok I'm a beginner at this have the Peet 100, MFJ-1270C and MFJ-8621 data
radio. I am looking for the config files for it to work in the stand
alone mode. Anyone using this setup that can help?
Tnx and 73, Bob N4BK Hartselle Alabama
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