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ZL3AI > APRDIG 07.12.03 12:00l 265 Lines 9487 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: Re: WX Station decode...
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:46:16 -0500 (EST)
X-Message-Number: 16
On Tue, 2 Dec 2003, James Jefferson wrote:
>Hi Bob - I don't know why the attacks are necessary. All I can do is
>prove my points in a clear and consistant manner and go on.
Yes, and so that is why I came to the defense of the Kenwoods which you
had wrongly attacked. I think if you simply send 000 instead of "..." for
indeterminant wind direction (in the complete format), then I think your
problem will be solved. I hope so anyway..
good luck
Bob
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Subject: Looking for email addr for G3NRW
From: James Washer <washer@trlp.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 13:49:02 -0800
X-Message-Number: 17
I'm trying to contact G3NRW wrt aprsdec, but the email addr in aprsec.pl
bounces. Anyone know how to reach Ian?
- jim
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Subject: Need help forming proper weather packets
From: James Jefferson <jj@aprsworld.net>
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:29:59 -0600
X-Message-Number: 18
Dear Group -
I have the following weather information:
wind speed
wind gust
temperature
raw rain counter
and the position information consisting of latitude and longitude
I am looking for a packet that will convey this information in a APRS
specification compliant manner.
Can somebody please help me with this?
Thanks,
-Jim KB0THN
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Subject: Re: WX Station decode...
From: James Jefferson <jj@aprsworld.net>
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:30:22 -0600
X-Message-Number: 19
Bob,
>Well, APRS did allow for that because APRS defines 000 as indeterminant
>and 360 as NORTH. THus, the correct way to send indeterminant wind
>direction is with 000. At least that is the way I designed "APRS" back in
>1994 time frame and it should have gotten into the spec that way.
Okay, per your suggestion I have changed the format of the packet and run
it back through aprsdec. Now the "..." in the wind direction position has
been replaced with "000".
Here is the results from running it through aprsdec:
KB0THN-2>APRS,N0BZZ-10,KC0FTN-10,K0NDX-10,TRACE3*,qAo,W0TVD-10:!4647.04N/09042.W
41_000/002g005t024#000000PIC
APRS Data Type= Posit w/o time. No APRS
Lat= 46 deg 47.04 min N Long= 90 deg 42.41 min W
Icon= WX station Overlay= (none)
Wind Direction= 000 deg Speed= 002 knots (2.3 mph 3.7 kph 1.0 m/s)
Gust Speed= 5 mph (8.0 kph 2.2 m/s 4.3 knots)
Temp= 24 degF (-4.4 degC) Windchill= 24.1 degF (-4.4 degC)
Rain: Last hour= (Indeterminate) Last 24 hrs= (Indeterminate)
Since midnight= (Indeterminate)
Next question: Do I need to put values in for last hour of rain, last 24
hours of rain, and rain since midnight?
Previously I had assumed that indeterminate meant that there wasn't enough
information to determine the value - but you say that it means that it
isn't correctly formed.
>Nope, sorry, there should be no mention in the spec that says you can
>substitute "..." for the Wind Direction field in the complete weather
>format. If you want to insert an indeterminant value for wind direction,
>then 000 should work. Again, I have no clue how many client programs
>properly implemented it this way....
Okay, how do I do the other indeterminate values? The proper number of
zeroes? If so, how does the user tell that I don't have instrumentation for
measuring rainfall versus zero rainfall?
-Jim
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Subject: Re: WX Station decode...
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:21:06 -0500 (EST)
X-Message-Number: 20
On Tue, 2 Dec 2003, James Jefferson Jarvis wrote:
>>Well, APRS did allow for that because APRS defines 000 as indeterminant
>>and 360 as NORTH. THus, the correct way to send indeterminant wind
>>direction is with 000. At least that is the way I designed "APRS" back in
>>1994 time frame and it should have gotten into the spec that way.
>
>Okay, per your suggestion I have changed the format of the packet and run it
>back through aprsdec. Now the "..." in the wind direction position has been
>replaced with "000".
>
>Here is the results from running it through aprsdec:
>
>KB0THN-2>APRS,N0BZZ-10,KC0FTN-10,K0NDX-10,TRACE3*,qAo,W0TVD-10:!4647.04N/090421
.4W_000/002g005t024#000000PIC
> APRS Data Type= Posit w/o time. No APRS
> Lat= 46 deg 47.04 min N Long= 90 deg 42.41 min W
> Icon= WX station Overlay= (none)
> Wind Direction= 000 deg Speed= 002 knots (2.3 mph 3.7 kph 1.0 m/s)
> Gust Speed= 5 mph (8.0 kph 2.2 m/s 4.3 knots)
> Temp= 24 degF (-4.4 degC) Windchill= 24.1 degF (-4.4 degC)
> Rain: Last hour= (Indeterminate) Last 24 hrs= (Indeterminate)
> Since midnight= (Indeterminate)
>
>Next question: Do I need to put values in for last hour of rain, last 24 hours
>of rain, and rain since midnight?
No, you are correct that including a designator and ... as in r... is a
valid way to indicate an indeterminant value as well as just omitting the
value completely. So I think that if you just change the wind direction to
000, that the kenwood should be happy.
>Previously I had assumed that indeterminate meant that there wasn't enough
>information to determine the value - but you say that it means that it isn't
>correctly formed.
That is a good assumption, but it doesnt apply to the wind speed and
direction fields...>
>>Nope, sorry, there should be no mention in the spec that says you can
>>substitute "..." for the Wind Direction field in the complete weather
>>format. If you want to insert an indeterminant value for wind direction,
>>then 000 should work. Again, I have no clue how many client programs
>>properly implemented it this way....
>
>Okay, how do I do the other indeterminate values? The proper number of zeroes?
>If so, how does the user tell that I don't have instrumentation for measuring
>rainfall versus zero rainfall?
You were correct in your original assumption, that you just leave them out
or insert ....
But I dont have time to look at the spec in detail, but there is a minimum
required subset. As long as you have wind speed, direction and temp, then
I think it should be considered a valid WX report.
Try it and let me know with the wind direction of 000...
thanks
Bob
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: WX Station decode...
From: dale huguley <kg5qd@wxsvr.net>
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 23:21:32 +0000
X-Message-Number: 21
Bob Bruninga wrote:
>Nope, sorry, there should be no mention in the spec that says you can
>substitute "..." for the Wind Direction field in the complete weather
>format. If you want to insert an indeterminant value for wind direction,
>then 000 should work. Again, I have no clue how many client programs
>properly implemented it this way....
Bob- This is inconsistant. All other places in the spec "..." means
indeterminate, although "000" can be used also. A course and speed of
"000/000" is far different than ".../..." . One means standng still- the
other means we don't know. The same with wind speed and direction. No
wind is different than unknown wind. It is not intuitive to have "000"
not mean zero but indeterminate, and "001" mean one in the wind fields,
but not in the rainfall fields.
73 de kg5qd Dale
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Subject: Re: WX Station decode...
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:32:26 -0500 (EST)
X-Message-Number: 22
On Tue, 2 Dec 2003, dale huguley wrote:
>Bob- This is inconsistant. All other places in the spec "..." means
>indeterminate, although "000" can be used also. A course and speed of
>"000/000" is far different than ".../..."
Yes, I agree, but at the time that APRS was developed and since WIND speed
and DIRECTION were filling FIXED numeric FIELDS, we had to define 000/000
as indeterminant. We tried to get everyone to recognize "..." where we
could, but since it would break some clients decoders at the time, we had
to go with it..
>. One means standng still- the
>other means we don't know.
Absolutely. THat is why we had to define a direction of 000 to mean
indeterminant. Then the only way we could indicate NORTH was to use 360.
>The same with wind speed and direction. No wind is different than
>unknown wind. It is not intuitive to have "000" not mean zero but
>indeterminate, and "001" mean one in the wind fields, but not in the
>rainfall fields.
Yes, it is not intuitive. But unfortunately, within the constraints of
everyone's decoders at the time that we were locked in the room until we
agreed on the lowest-common denominator for the SPEC, it is what we had to
go with...
Sorry...
Bob
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Need help forming proper weather packets
From: "Spider" <spider@rivcom.net>
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:04:42 -0700
X-Message-Number: 23
James, jump over to
18:01:02T WA6OFT>APU25H,WIDE,WIDE <UI C Len=79>:
@030101z3408.62N/11417.49W_133/000g000t064r000p008P004b10181h25Parker,
Arizona
Is that what you wanted?
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Jefferson" <jj@aprsworld.net>
To: "TAPR APRS Special Interest Group" <aprssig@lists.tapr.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 3:29 PM
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