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ZL3AI > APRDIG 29.09.03 18:10l 221 Lines 9175 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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From: ZL3AI@ZL3VML.#80.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Subject: Emergency Power lights.
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:01:30 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 33
For what it's worth.
While running emergency generators, I thought I would use the 30 watt
screw-in compact flourescents (CF's) (100W equivalent light output) so that
I could get 3 times as much light in our darkened building from my tiny
300W generator.
I had 6 CF's. THe first one blew out the first second that it was
connected. THinking it was a fluke (I got all these at an estate sale), I
hooked up a second one. It operated normally until I plugged in a second
one. THen it blew and smoked the power strip I was using. Then I knocked
one over and it broke. 3 down and still we had not even begun to work in
the new light.
Next I added a 100W resistive bulb to give a steady load and then added
two of the remaining compact flourescents. That worked for over a day,
until someone came along and saw the 100W bulb doing nothing and turned it
off. Blink went one of the CF's. THe last one broke when someone tried
to lengthen a 100 foot extension cord by pulling on it with all his might.
and pulled the lamp fixture down.
Conclusion? I would sure be careful if I invested in CF's for emergency
lighting! If I had paid real money for these, I would have wasted about
$120 real fast.
And this little 300W Honda has been with me for 30 years and is steady as
a rock. I dont think the transients were at all unusual for emergency
power. SOmething else is going on with these bulbs...
for what its worth...
Next time I may put a UPS in series. At the last hamfest, NEW (but
returned) 500W UPS's were going for $9 each. But I doubt seriously if
they are true isolated UPS's that condition all-the-time. My suspicion is
that they switch straight through on normal power and just fast-transfer
on loss of power. THus, they would not be all that good at leveling out
transients?
Bob
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Subject: Re: Part 2/2 -Re: Take Control - oh let's just go backwards
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:07:24 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 34
On Fri, 26 Sep 2003, Dave VanHorn wrote about someone else's idea of
letting the digi collect packets and then dump them every 30 miniuts to
amortize the key-up delays...
>Not a good solution. The uneducated user will think he needs to beacon
>more, or is doing something else wrong, when he doesn't get digi'd.
>You're failing him, without any indication what's wrong.
Right On Dave! APRS is a real time system! It does not need HACKS
that put in random up to 30 minute delays and latency into the network.
Dave is entirely correct. Someone that does not see his packet digipeated
immediately can only assume it was lost. He will transmit it again.
DUH! This just ADDS QRM, it doesnt solve anything.
What should he do, transmit once and then wait 30 minutes to see if he is
a participant in the event or not? geeze... APRS network disintegration
at its finest...
Bob
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Subject: Re: Part 2/2 -Re: Take Control - oh let's just go backwards
From: Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu>
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:12:40 -0400 (EDT)
X-Message-Number: 35
>The APRS spec talks about 10 minutes if I'm correct. I don't think this
>can be sustained for all stations, local and DX, just not possible to
>get the whole world in view with in 10 minutes via 1200 baud.
It never was intended. Read the spec again. It is a 10 minute update
rate for LOCAL (read direct or local digi) packets invovled in active
operations (read real LIVE people using APRS to DO something) only. Thus
there should be no such thing as a DX station flooding a local net with 10
minute packets. ANd where in the world do we get the concept that LOCAL,
DIRECT, or ONE-HOP means the "whole world!"
No wonder APRS is disintegrating with local hacks...
Bob
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Subject: Re: WAS: TRACKING THIEF IS: 911 and GPS Phones
From: Neil Johnson <njohnsn@njohnsn.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 18:43:55 -0500
X-Message-Number: 36
I just recently upgraded to a Nokia 3685i. It has a GPS in it and also claims
to support Mobile Java Apps.
Some day when my provider actually gets around to supporting 1XRTT ("High
Speed") Internet. I was hoping that I could write a Java Applet that could
send my position to findu.
--
Neil Johnson
http://www.njohnsn.com
PGP key available on request.
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Subject: RE: Emergency Power lights.
From: "Ken Brown" <W2KB@comcast.net>
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:57:24 -0400
X-Message-Number: 37
Also keep in mind that those bulbs generate RF that can interfere with radio
communications. The newer packaging has a warning on that, older packaging
did not..
When I ran my 3500 Honda generator I noted that my regular 4 foot
fluorescent tubes were very sensitive to voltage swings, so I used only
incandescent bulbs.
---Ken
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Subject: Re: APRS Grass growing...
From: WA8LMF2@aol.com
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 20:44:43 EDT
X-Message-Number: 38
In a message dated 9/26/2003 3:37:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
bruninga@usna.edu writes:
>Violates the KISS principle and gains nothing. Already a home station is
>only transmitting once every 30 minutes. Why get the digi involved in it?
Except that a awful of of clueless users have houses (and stationary parked
mobiles) beaconing FAR more frequently than this. Here in L.A. I see
numerous parked mobiles beaconing every two minutes all day and all night
long generating 5-10 successive (not fratricidally overlapping) packets
each time on the WIDEn-N SoCal area network.
I think having the digis treat non-changing posits as dupes over an
extended period would be a significant congestion-reducing measure. I
might set the the dupe period a bit less -- perhaps 10-15 mins or so.
Stephen H. Smith wa8lmf (at) aol.com
Home Page: http://wa8lmf.com
Ham Radio/Mobile SSTV page: http://members.aol.com/wa8lmf/ham
APRN SSTV Mobile LiveCAM: http://members.aol.com/wa8lmf2/aprn
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Subject: Re: I guess we're going to agree to disagree Bob. Part 3 of hopefully 3
From: Vince <heffer@mindspring.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 09:25:32 -0400
X-Message-Number: 39
Here is a thought. Educate those who are QRMing the system. Contact them
directly and turn them off if they do not care to listen.
Seeing this same type of thread, for who knows how long, I wonder how much
energy it would take to contact those who use WIDE5-5 and more without a
good reason. I'm seeing a station locally using WIDE6-6 without a valid
location - according to WinAPRS - who is associated with AMSAT and TEARA;
according to their QRZ listing. WHY? I would hope this person would know
better. There are a couple in GA with WIDE7-7 - one definitely stationary
- and others with just WIDE6; not sure what this will do as I'm still a
newbie.
If programming for the last 20 years has taught me anything, it is you can
not make any system idiot proof. There will always be a way to muck up a
system. So what do you do? Well, you do not chase your tail by turning
known utilities off. Because you wind up adding one band-aid after another
if you do. You have to EDUCATE the end user.
When I started using APRS a couple years ago I tried to gather all the
info I could - not wanting to irritate anyone or get myself kicked off
something I didn't understand. It took quite a while before I found out
the specs were in text documents included with the DosAPRS downloads. And
yes, local elmers were queried. The best they could offer was to use
WIDE3-3 to get into the net. Dumb me, I didn't ask what net. Turns out
it was the Net; 'puters, internet. It wasn't a concern for me at the
time. And still is not. Joe Blow does not care if I'm txing on APRS half
a world away. I was just looking to support a local event. Point being I
was given false info at the time.
All these discussions are very interesting, but they do not address the
problem. Let those APRS users with silly paths know their paths are
causing harm and maybe they will stop. If they do not, do not broadcast
them. Period. Problem solved. If you try to 'account' for them by
making changes then you will always be chasing your tail, and you will
only affect locals or those with valid reasons for what they do.
btw - the biggest problem we had a couple years ago for the event in
eastern NC were the few outside stations using WIDE5-5 or more txing every
few minutes. Beyond them, APRS was pretty quiet in the area.
KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid
Good luck in your discussions, I hope the level headed prevail.
Best to all,
Vince
Cary, NC
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