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VE2HAR > MT63 10.03.05 05:04l 204 Lines 6867 Bytes #-7498 (0) @ WW
BID : 32189SENTTO
Read: GUEST
Subj: Re: [MT63] 20 kHz wide Digital Proposal
Path: DB0FHN<DB0FOR<DB0SIF<DB0EA<DB0RES<ON0AR<VA2HAR<VE2HAR
Sent: 050310/0245z @:VE2HAR.#MTL.QC.CAN.NOAM Laval #:40937 $:32189sentto
I am sure a very small number of individuals think that it is
a bright idea to implement a 20 kHz digital mode on HF now.
It's a man with a poor argument who resorts to immature
name-calling, and "me too" remarks, Jeff.
Let's hear some technical substance to your claims instead
of the inane, rude remarks.
Would you like your next HF SSB contact to get stepped on
by a 100 kHz wide S9 digital signal that swamps the entire
sub-band?
That is in effect what you are suggesting and I guarantee you
that the vast majority of hams will reject your absurd suggestion
of unlimited bandwidths right now.
Maybe things will change with future digitized audio modes,
but you are getting WAY ahead of yourself with these outlandish
suggestions. Get the technical part right and skip the playground
talk.
For now the digital and analog modes must function together
and we need someone far brighter than you to steer us through
the transition.
On 9 Mar 2005 at 14:03, jeff@aerodata.net blathered:
> This is just an example of what is wrong with this hobby today. I take
> the exact opposite approach... the only thing that should limit our
> bandwidth is good amateur practice. I realize many in our society want
> bigger goverment (i.e. more regulations), but the spirit of amateur
> radio, that is, the advancement of the state of the art, should take
> priority over these vested special interests that want to retain the
> status qou.
>
> Anyways, these "chicken little" arguements AF4K puts forth are
> tired... as a teenager I used to collect old radio magazines, and many
> of the points he put forth where also expressed by the SPARK operators
> as this new continuous wave mode became popular. We got through the
> state of the art advancing then, and I don't see the case were we
> won't here.
>
>
> > Brian,
> >
> > Well yes and no. What the HSMM is suggesting is that you allow up
> > to 20 KHz signals. But we're taking about 56KBPs throughput that
> > would allow one or more voice channels actually multi-mode all on
> > one signal.
> >
> > You might see 56KBPs data but it would only be on-the-air for a
> > short time. The "channel" would be shared.
> >
> > Right now we have MT63 at 200 WPM thoughput on a 2 KHz wide bandpass
> > at a -5 dB SNR on a poor CCIR channel. But we really need to push
> > 800-1200 WPM at the same signal level. I don't see doing that with
> > less than a 6 KHz channel even exploiting some of the new OFDM type
> > modulation protocols being developed.
> >
> > How many CW QSOs running at 20 WPM will it take to produce 1200 WPM
> > error free copy at a signal level that MT63 can copy? These are
> > signal levels that even the best CW operator can't copy a signal at.
> > So the answer is that NO number of CW QSOs can produce the
> > throughput of 1200 BPS, near error free, at a -5 dB SNR on a poor
> > CCIR channel.
> >
> > All this IS possible if we are willing to step out of the box.
> >
> > AND the new modes that will develop will be FAR SUPERIOR to Pactor
> > III or anything being done today on HF.
> >
> > We're also looking at doing much of this work using a computer sound
> > card so separate controller hardware is not needed.
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > Walt DuBose/K5YFW
> > Asst Chairman
> > ARRL HSMM WG
> >
> >
> > Quoting Brian Carling <bcarling@cfl.rr.com>:
> >>
> >> On 8 Mar 2005 at 19:11, David J. Ring, Jr. wrote:
> >>
> >> > I don't think the digital signals they want are 20 kHz wide!
> >>
> >> Want to bet on that?
> >>
> >> There IS in fact a proposal out now for a digiotal mode that IS 20
> >> kHz wide for high speed data transefer on HF ham bands. (as if
> >> Cra... er, I mean Pactor is not jamming the HF bands enough
> >> already!)
> >>
> >> Here it is:
> >>
> >> On Janauary 19, 2005, John Champa, K8OCL,ARRL Chairman, High Speed
> >> Multimedia Networks Working Group, issued the Technology Task Force
> >> report to the ARRL Board of Directors, which includes the
> >> following:
> >>
> >> "At a minimum, 20 kHz wide emissions should be allowed in the
> >> following segments:
> >>
> >> 3.58 - 3.725 MHz
> >> 7.035 - 7.125 MHz
> >> 14.065 - 14.15 MHz
> >> 21.08 - 21.2 MHz
> >> 29 - 29.7 MHz"
> >>
> >> Obviously, a *single* HSMM transmission, 20 KHz wide, could
> >> totally wipe out all PSK31, MFSK16, RTTY, and many CW and DX
> >> operations on 80m, 40m, and 20m, where they are now used
> >> worldwide. Dozens of CW QSOS could be obliterated within
> >> one 20 kHz swath. NOT a good idea at all!
> >>
> >> We have never seen such a lack of concern and compassion for the
> >> majority of radio amateur activities as evidenced by the ARRL
> >> Committee on HSMM and ARRL support for Winlink's attempted
> >> domination of the HF frequencies, in both cases, to sacrifice the
> >> hobby on HF for everyone else in order to favor a very small
> >> special interest group.
> >>
> >> I can only hope that they really are coming to their senses at the
> >> top level of leadership, but this is cause for alarm. JIm Haynie
> >> says that they are going to have a new band plan by July. I hope it
> >> is a workable one that averyone can live with. The Winlink/Pactor
> >> mess will hopefully get reined in by this.
> >>
> >> OK back to some fun CW contacts now, and a little less grumbling!
> >>
> >> 73 de AF4K
> >>
> >>
> >>
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> >>
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> >>
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> >>
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Linlink mailing list
> > Linlink@wetnet.net
> > http://wetnet.net/mailman/listinfo/linlink
> >
>
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