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G0SYR > INFO 10.11.04 13:56l 108 Lines 5026 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
BID : 7230G0SYR
Read: GUEST
Subj: KB2VXA and forwarding
Path: DB0FHN<DB0RGB<DB0MRW<OK0PKL<OK0PPL<DB0RES<ON0AR<7M3TJZ<HG8LXL<CX2SA<
GB7YFS<GB7CIP<GB7CIP<GB7CIP
Sent: 041110/1149Z @:GB7CIP.#32.GBR.EU $:7230G0SYR
T:From: g0syr <g0syr@gb7cip.ampr.org>
T:Newsgroups: ampr.help
T:Message-Id: <l8z6fetm8i5k$.1jgupf4ak9wl0.dlg@40tude.net>
Hi Warren and all,
As you seemed to miss my last posting on this I'll start a more obvious
thread.
On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 15:11:00 +0000,
kb2vxa%wt3v.#cnj.nj.usa.noam@gb7cip.ampr.org wrote:
> From: KB2VXA@WT3V.#CNJ.NJ.USA.NOAM
> To : INFO@WW
>
> Hi Daryl and readers,
>
> I assume you mean this Warren even if there are two of us and my callsign
> isn't VE3DDG. (That pesky Winpack in full auto mode again, hi.)
>
> Well, I can say one thing, your bull was forwarded by radio even if I'm
> unsure of the VE3FJB-ON0AR link. OK, your sysop can answer that question.
> I can't blame foulups ENTIRELY on the Internet and didn't mean to imply
> it since there actually are some sysops who know where to forward to.
> It's the ones who forward to Katmandu via Japan in order to get to the US
> via Europe (where it finally becomes radio) who ping-pong all over the
> place and at each (mis)hop lies the potential for anouther mess.
>
With reference to your comments about mis-forwarding, as you are answering
a question about the loss of original bulletins posted @WW I am assuming
your comments are directed at sysops forwarding bulletins @WW
As I post this bulletin @WW as a user I have two expectations of the BBS
network
A copy will be forwarded to every BBS in the world that will accept it
and as quickly as is practically possible.
Those expectations are in order of priority the main thing is that
as many BBSs get a copy as possible. Speed of delivery is of secondary
importance and I accept delays in reaching some parts of the network
and as long are these are kept to a few days then it's practical to
communicate via this network.
Now WHO determines the R line path that you see in the headers
when you receive this bulletin?
In my view it's just ONE person 'Old Father Time'. Time is only
factor that shapes the R Line path and the path observed is the
quickest possible path between my BBS and yours on that particular
occasion. (I mean real time not the time that some BBSs think is real)
Sysop routing or misrouting plays no part in this process
I'm sorry to state the obvious but perhaps its not so obvious to some.
Each BBS has one or more links to other BBS's. Forwarding is carried out
by the BBS regularly connecting to its partners and passing on any
outstanding traffic. For my BBS to achieve my expectations it will forward
a copy of my bulletin to each of its partners as soon as the next
forwarding session allows. Each BBS that receives my bulletin performs
this simple operation again. Before passing a copy, a check will be carried
out to see if the receiving BBS has already got a copy so it's the first
valid copy that will be forwarded onward to any partners that have not yet
received a copy.
If you see in the R lines, that you receive, that a UK BBS forwarded
to a BBS in Belgium that is not my sysop routing a message to the USA
via Belgium that copy is the one destined for Belgium.
If the Belgian station forwards next to Japan again this is not a
bulletin being routed to the USA via Japan but the copy for Japan
So although you may see an erratic geographic path in the R lines this is
simply the quickest route. No one controls this route, it creates itself
and depends entirely on TIME. No one knows what the path will be, if there
were a quicker route then that would be the path you'd see.
I'm not neccessarily referring to link speed (internet versus radio) as
most of the delays will probably be due to waiting at each BBS for the
next scheduled forwarding session, this may be minutes, hours or days.
My local BBS has several direct forwarding partners in the USA so a
direct copy of my bulletin will be deposited in each at around the same
time as it's passed to all the other partners in the UK/Europe/Australia.
The fact that you don't see these more direct paths to the US seems to be
down to the fragmentation of the USA network. As soon as you introduce
artificial barriers in your local network by refusing to forward with some
BBSs then you delay more direct paths reaching you, hence the quickest
route is no longer the most geographically direct.
I find it interesting that you have repeated these claims several times
without being able to pinpoint the 'guilty' sysops. Could this be because
each time you look it's difficult to see who is at 'fault'.
If you understand how the system works I hope you might be able to see
that you are sniping at a problem that simply doesn't exist, so please
don't expect anyone to fix it soon :-)
If you already know all the above Warren and are simply trying to stir up
trouble by misleading others please ignore this bulletin it's really
aimed at those who may be misled into thinking that you are making a
valid point.
--
73 de Bryan g0syr.ampr.org [ 44.131.244.60 ]
Amprnet mail g0syr@gb7cip.ampr.org
AX25 mail G0SYR@GB7CIP.#32.GBR.EU
Internet Mail g0syr@beeb.net
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