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PA2AGA > HDDIG 20.09.00 23:13l 217 Lines 7556 Bytes #999 (0) @ EU
BID : HD_2000_256G
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Subj: HamDigitalDigest 2000/256G
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Sent: 000920/1848Z @:PI8HGL.#ZH1.NLD.EU #:16243 [Den Haag] FBB $:HD_2000_256G
From: PA2AGA@PI8HGL.#ZH1.NLD.EU
To : HDDIG@EU
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 00 20:17:34 MET
Message-Id: <hd_2000_256G>
From: pa2aga@pe1mvx.ampr.org
To: hd_broadcast@pa2aga.ampr.org
X-BBS-Msg-Type: B
>> As usual, Hank is discussing in circles again. First he wants examples of
>> how TCP/IP applications can be used with packet radio, and once you give
>> them he starts talking oldfashioned packet radio protocols again!
>Rob, to make any such operation useful, things must interoperate.
But no software is required in the client PC to do that.
I get my mail forwarded in SMTP from the local F6FBB BBS and I reply to
it using a mailer that sends it back in SMTP. The conversion is done in
the BBS.
>> Who would ever want this translation in the client software?
>Who was talking about client software?
You wanted to have client software to run TCP/IP on amateur packet.
Server software has not been a problem for a long time.
>> In a TCP/IP network, the clients are talking to corresponding services
>> on the network and server systems. Your BBS will be running INN and
>> sendmail (plus probably a POP3/IMAP server), no hamradio BBS stuff.
>And how will it then interoperate with the existing services?
>Without that interoperation, it won't work.
Why would I tell you? You will have further comments and remarks about
how unusable or non-USA these solutions are.
>> When there has to be any gatewaying, it will be done by the BBS system,
>> not the user software. Of course.
>"the BBS system" ... "user software".
>This is the same old song that we have heard for years.
>Why must these be different things?
Because the average user is not interested in running his own BBS.
He wants to fire up the system and work. No configuration and maintenance.
Look at the Internet: 99.9999% of the users aren't running any services at
all. They just connect to their provider who runs all the services.
>> >Have you looked at SNOS to see what is needed?
>> I have never had a DOS-based system at home. Sorry.
>> My system is now running Linux, and I have NET running for the conversions.
>> I have not seen the need for anything different yet.
>I didn't ask you whether you ran it, but whether you looked at it
>to learn what problem it solved, and why.
You have discussed that many times.
>So your claim is that NET/ROM is not "networking", APRS is not "networking",
>DX cluster is not "networking"? Didn't think you were a tcp/ip bigot.
NET/ROM provides no networking in the sense that IP does.
In a network, each station has a unique address that can be looked up, and
used to make connections to it. With NET/ROM, there are additional
addresses involved (endnode callsigns) that no service in the network will
provide to the user.
Flexnet is slightly better in that it allows to "locate" a peer that is at
an unknown endnode, but worse in that it does not distribute any
information about the nodes themselves (so that the user cannot guess which
node will be near to the user, based on city name etc)
It is this addressing layer that is so painfully missing in AX.25
"networking". When I want to connect to W0RLI, I first have to investigate
where he lives, how the network surrounding him is structured, and at which
of the nearby nodes he is QRV. That probably involves a BBS message or
even a phonecall.
When I want to FTP to ftp.ucsd.edu, I don't need any of this info. I ask
the IP address and send off my connect request.
That is the big difference between NET/ROM (or Flexnet, Rose for that
matter) and IP.
Rob
--
+----------------------------------+--------------------------------------+
| Rob Janssen pe1chl@amsat.org | WWW: http://www.knoware.nl/users/rob |
| AMPRnet: rob@pe1chl.ampr.org | AX.25 BBS: PE1CHL@PI8WNO.#UTR.NLD.EU |
+----------------------------------+--------------------------------------+
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Date: 19 Sep 2000 01:30:56 GMT
From: hamkb1ddi@aol.com (HAM kb1ddi)
Subject: TCP/IP Address 2
Simple question, hopefully a simple answer. Would someone be kind enough to
"email" infomation as to how I can get my HAM TCP/IP address. MY last post
degenerated it to a bar room brawl. :-)
Thanks
My email address is Hamkb1ddi@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 21:29:10 -0500
From: "Steve Sampson \(K5OKC\)" <ssampson@nospam.radio-link.net>
Subject: TCP/IP Address 2
Go back and read the first reply. The information you want was
clearly given, and is located at ftp://ftp.ucsd.edu/hamradio
"HAM kb1ddi" says:
> Simple question, hopefully a simple answer. Would someone be kind enough to
> "email" infomation as to how I can get my HAM TCP/IP address. MY last post
> degenerated it to a bar room brawl. :-)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 03:16:14 GMT
From: "Hank Oredson" <horedson@att.net>
Subject: TCP/IP Address 2
"Steve Sampson (K5OKC)" <ssampson@nospam.radio-link.net> wrote in message
news:ssdjsbil3eh438@corp.supernews.com...
> Go back and read the first reply. The information you want was
> clearly given, and is located at ftp://ftp.ucsd.edu/hamradio
The simple answer (which Steve could have provided, but he's lazy):
Contact KD1CA. If you can't get hold of him,
send an email to brian@ucsd.edu asking for help.
KD1CA
Dennis A. Lauzon
96 Union St.
Woonsocket, RI 02895
> "HAM kb1ddi" says:
> > Simple question, hopefully a simple answer. Would someone be kind enough
to
> > "email" infomation as to how I can get my HAM TCP/IP address. MY last post
> > degenerated it to a bar room brawl. :-)
Naw, that's just our normal "spirited discussion" mode here!
--
... Hank
http://horedson.home.att.net
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Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 22:43:24 -0500
From: "Steve Sampson \(K5OKC\)" <ssampson@nospam.radio-link.net>
Subject: TCP/IP Address 2
"Hank Oredson" says:
> The simple answer (which Steve could have provided, but he's lazy):
With my answer he can fish, with yours he only gets one meal.
Since most new IP enthusiasts only last a few days, I generally just
recommend they pick any IP address above 64 in their states octet,
as those addresses are not coordinated in the U.S.
Ta Ta
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 06:50:28 GMT
From: nomail@rob.knoware.nl (Rob Janssen)
Subject: TCP/IP Address 2
Hank Oredson <horedson@att.net> wrote:
>"Steve Sampson (K5OKC)" <ssampson@nospam.radio-link.net> wrote in message
>news:ssdjsbil3eh438@corp.supernews.com...
>> Go back and read the first reply. The information you want was
>> clearly given, and is located at ftp://ftp.ucsd.edu/hamradio
>The simple answer (which Steve could have provided, but he's lazy):
>Contact KD1CA. If you can't get hold of him,
>send an email to brian@ucsd.edu asking for help.
I think it is rude to suggest bothering brian for things that can be solved
by simple FTP.
I already posted the URL: ftp://ftp.ucsd.edu/hamradio/amprnets
Apparently mister HAM did not read that or he killfiled me. Too bad.
Rob
--
+----------------------------------+--------------------------------------+
| Rob Janssen pe1chl@amsat.org | WWW: http://www.knoware.nl/users/rob |
| AMPRnet: rob@pe1chl.ampr.org | AX.25 BBS: PE1CHL@PI8WNO.#UTR.NLD.EU |
+----------------------------------+--------------------------------------+
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End of Ham-Digital Digest V2000 #256
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