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PA2AGA > HDDIG 18.06.00 14:53l 192 Lines 7152 Bytes #-9439 (0) @ EU
BID : HD_2000_168D
Read: GUEST
Subj: HamDigitalDigest 2000/168D
Path: DB0AAB<DB0SL<DB0RGB<DB0ABH<DB0SRS<DB0FP<DB0SON<DB0SIF<DB0NHM<DB0SHG<
DB0SM<PI8DAZ<PI8GCB<PI8WNO<PI8HGL
Sent: 000618/0109Z @:PI8HGL.#ZH1.NLD.EU #:52495 [Den Haag] FBB $:HD_2000_168D
From: PA2AGA@PI8HGL.#ZH1.NLD.EU
To : HDDIG@EU
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 00 00:19:59 MET
Message-Id: <hd_2000_168D>
From: pa2aga@pe1mvx.ampr.org
To: hd_broadcast@pa2aga.ampr.org
X-BBS-Msg-Type: B
>> X-Priority: 3
>> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4029.2901
>> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4029.2901
>> Message-ID: <L7VY4.34$pk3.1206@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
>> Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 20:02:51 GMT
>> NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.73.129.64
>> X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net
>> X-Trace: bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 959716971 12.73.129.64 (Tue, 30
>> May 2000 20:02:51 GMT)
>> NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 20:02:51 GMT
>> Organization: AT&T Worldnet
>> Xref: news1.atlantic.net rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:38796
>>
>>
>> "Steve Sampson" <ssampson@usa-site.net> wrote in message
>> news:sj7a95rl5pj146@corp.supernews.com...
>> > The purpose of a BBS is to collect and distribute messages of
>> > a public nature. The purpose of an electronic mail node, is to
>> > collect and distribute both public and private messages.
>>
>> WinLink stations CAN do both, but normally only handle private messages.
>>
>> > I propose that you want to do that at the highest speed, thus
>> > you want to compress the data on the transport frequency.
>> > By allowing non-compressed users on the same frequency, you
>> > defeat the whole purpose of achieving maximum through-put.
>>
>> The WinLink "transport frequency" is the internet. All RF use of WinLink
>> in it's "AirMail" incarnation is from user to host. i.e. it's a bunch of
>> RF email drops hanging off the internet.
>>
>> > We have to trust fellow Hams to do the right thing. We trust
>> > them every day to not commercialize the spectrum, using modes
>> > that can't be monitored directly.
>>
>> Har!
>>
>> > I think when Hams finally accept high speed data pipes as
>> > carrying pure data, it will be the day they enter the 20th Century.
>>
>> As opposed to "impure data"?
>>
>> > If you don't want people to send "data" over your data system,
>> > then don't put up a node. If all you want is to be a limit on
>> > what Hams can transport, you're in the wrong hobby.
>>
>> You failed to understand the main point below:
>>
>> > "Markus Lenggenhager" wrote
>> > > Hi all
>> > >
>> > > My personal opinion is that this WinLink2000-AirMail alliance is
>> > > definitely going in the wrong direction. Ham BBSs should be accessible
>> > > using any commonly available client software.
>>
>> Ever since the original author of WinLink allowed someone else to
>> take over development of the system, it has moved more and more
>> toward a closed, proprietary system. Forcing (or attempting to force)
>> the use of WinLink-specific clients appears to just be part of the
>> strategy: to lock out competing software. Keep in mind that the commercial
>> use of WinLink and similar systems can produce a good deal of income.
>> You only need to "beat" Inmarsat on price, which is probably not hard.
>>
>> > > Furthermore, all
>> > > WinLink2000 BBSs are interconnected via Internet, which means it
becomes
>> > > obvious their main purpose is to act as a cheap e-mail replacement. The
>> > > fact that all tfc is compressed (unreadable by thirds) makes it very
>> > > difficult to check if this network is not misused by pirates of all
>> > > kinds.
>>
>> Exactly.
>>
>> > > It's a pity that PACTOR-II has been kind of devaluated and is being
used
>> > > almost entirely as a workhorse to carry binary BBS tfc. It's getting
>> > > more and more difficult to find a live QSO partner amidst all these
>> > > signals produced by unattended systems. No wonder PSK31 has become so
>> > > popular: Behind every signal you monitor there's a human being!
>>
>> Well ... the value of bulk transfer protocols like PACTOR-II and CLOVER
>> is that they work very well for BBS-BBS movement of messages. This allows
>> hams to time-shift: i.e. carry on QSOs with other hams who are not on the
>> air at the same time, etc. It's real convenient. PSK31 is not useful for
>> this
>> mode,
>> so all use will, by the nature of the protocol, require a human to
>> interpolate
>> the errors out of the datastream.
>>
>> > > 73, Markus HB9BRJ
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> ... Hank
>>
>> http://horedson.home.att.net
>>
>>
>>
>> -----------------------------------------
>> Pat __O
>> _-\<,_
>> (_)/ (_)
>> Patrick R. McKeeby
>> N0ZO@lcia.com
>> n0zo@lee.win-net.org
>> http://members.lcia.com/n0zo/
>> IRC - mIRC #netlink channel
>> -----------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>--
>
> ... Hank
>
>http://horedson.home.att.net
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 09:10:05 GMT
From: n0zo@lcia.com (Pat McKeeby)
Subject: N0ZO no longer supports Keyboard inputs!
Hank, you ever hear of progress? All this mumbling and grumbling
won't do a thing for you except give you ulcers. I'll bet your ate up
with them. I ran two systems for years, WinFBB and WinLink, each
having it's own purpose. WinFBB served the local community, and yep,
I had internet connects. Wanna know what killed packet Hank? BBS's
swapping traffic for hours on end, and the poor user could never get
his traffic off his BBS because it was always BUSY forwrading
bulletins. I'd much rather have fresh bulletins on the system than
wait hours and hours to get it off HF or VHF and users accessing the
system and NOT having problems. I wonder what the ratio of hams that
have internet access vrs those that don't? People have moved to the
internet where they can get what they want, when they want it and from
whomever they want it from in a timely fashion. And the reliability
is better than packet could ever hope to be. As for WinLink (and now
WL2K) it serves another purpose. /MM's and RV'ers and also P and NTS
type traffic. Give over. Quit kicking a dead horse. Admit your
living in the past, and your glory days are over. Now all you seem to
be able to to is mumble and grumble. So what if WL2K and WinLink have
an internet interface? It works, and works well, I might add. So
WL2K must use a FBB type client such as AirMail? Your a programmer.
Come up with something better that what's available now without using
the internet. Maybe you'll get some converts. I suggest you read the
information found on the internet as to what WL2K really does, Hank.
Pat
On Tue, 30 May 2000 20:02:51 GMT, "Hank Oredson" <horedson@att.net>
wrote:
>
>"Steve Sampson" <ssampson@usa-site.net> wrote in message
>news:sj7a95rl5pj146@corp.supernews.com...
>> The purpose of a BBS is to collect and distribute messages of
>> a public nature. The purpose of an electronic mail node, is to
>> collect and distribute both public and private messages.
>
>WinLink stations CAN do both, but normally only handle private messages.
>
>> I propose that you want to do that at the highest speed, thus
>> you want to compress the data on the transport frequency.
>> By allowing non-compressed users on the same frequency, you
>> defeat the whole purpose of achieving maximum through-put.
To be continued in digest: hd_2000_168E
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