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Subject: HamDigitalDigest 99/263
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Ham-Digital Digest Sun, 17 Oct 99 Volume 99 : Issue 263
Today's Topics:
DX-Net
Let's look at real numbers for TNC software sales (2 msgs)
Linux crashes Windows - was Re: The BBS network and tcp/ip (2 msgs)
PACTOR or AMTOR
Prospective Project (2 msgs)
The BBS network and tcp/ip
The BBS network and tcp/ip. (6 msgs)
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Loop-Detect: Ham-Digital:99/263
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 14:32:30 GMT
From: me <kkpl@spiretech.com>
Subject: DX-Net
so what the url of the web site?
tnx
Dale Hagert wrote:
> DX-Net is now available, both DOS and Linux version at the DX Net web site.
>
> Thanks
> Dale W0IR
>.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 14:26:11 -0400
From: "Carl R. Stevenson" <wa6vse@fast.net>
Subject: Let's look at real numbers for TNC software sales
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Gary Coffman <ke4zv@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:rckAOA=kKKf28uDaZSJPPGznK4LB@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 9 Oct 1999 18:24:24 -0700, "Hank Oredson" <horedson@att.net>
wrote:
> >Gary Coffman <ke4zv@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> >news:e1v=N1IBV7xwV00WtHBg+PxnWmoB@4ax.com...
> >> On Sun, 3 Oct 1999 22:27:34 -0700, "Hank Oredson"
<horedson@att.net>
> >wrote:
> >> >Gary Coffman <ke4zv@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> >> >news:Xw34NxHJf+EF064afvXkDcnPO0tB@4ax.com...
> >> >
> >> >> >"... well engineered .." makes no sense. The paths are what
they are.
> >> >> >They go, for example, from my house to your house.
As Gary, I believe, stated, that's not a network, that's a single
link. And it
may be impossibile to do that link with acceptable speed, quality, and
reliability for it to be part of a (robust, reliable) network.
A REAL network design approach would recognize that the path
is not suitable and identify an intermediate relay node site to make
the system work well. (This would involve 2 or more well-engineered
paths.)
> >> >>
> >> >> That's where they end up, perhaps after several intermediate
relay hops.
> >> >> But each hop path has to be properly engineered. That means
proper siting,
> >> >> proper link margin, and proper consideration of multipath
issues. This isn't
> >> >> Olde Tyme Radio, we don't have to make the entire trip in one
hop. Digital
> >> >> networks are naturally suited to automatic relay.
> >> >
> >> >> >This is the long haul case we are talking about. You don't
*normally*
> >> >> >put large dishes or large yagi arrays anywhere except on your
own
> >> >> >property. Way too hard to maintain if they are not local.
Exceptions
> >> >> >exist of course, but I've never personally encountered one.
> >> >>
> >> >> Nor have I. With an adequate number of properly engineered
relay sites,
> >> >
> >> >Gary,
> >> >
> >> >Do you intentionally misread?
> >> >We were talking about a single link.
> >> >A path between two stations.
> >> >Between exactly two relay points.
> >> >One of those hops in the network.
> >>
> >> Yes, I understood that. What you don't seem to understand is that
> >> if the numbers work out to an unreasonable solution, as in the
cases
> >> you've given, you don't do that single link. You do a different
topology
> >> instead that will give acceptable numbers. That will involve more
than
> >> one hop, but total network performance will improve.
Gary, it's clear that Hank DOESN'T understand that ... his view of the
world seems to be "What can I connect to DIRECTLY from my house?"
Either that or he's just (still) looking to pick a fight to keep
himself in
somewhat of a limelight now that the BBS fad is over and he's no
longer
a "software god."
> >You *do* intentionally misread!
> >Imagine my surprise.
> >
> >As stated many times, "... different topology ..." is not always
possible.
>
> A different topology may require efforts you don't want to expend,
> or levels of cooperation you aren't willing to achieve, but
different
> network topologies are almost always possible. It is just a matter
> of how determined you are to meet your networking objectives.
It appears that if it's not a direct link from his house to some
distant
end point, he doesn't consider it "worthwhile." I think your previous
commments re the DXer mentality may have been on the mark, Gary.
(It's a case of "My ____ is bigger [more powerful, spans greater
distances] than yours." to Hank, it seems.)
[snip]
> In a society of free choice, building a sustainable network, amateur
or
> commercial, requires a commitment to excellence of system
engineering.
> If you can't deliver the performance and services your user base
demands,
> the network won't be sustainable. Only a legally enforced monopoly
can
> get away with mediocre performance for long.
That's EXACTLY why Hank and Charles' BBS forwarding "network"
approach has essentially died. The "system" was poorly designed,
provided little in the way of services which could compete with the
internet, and took a "head in the sand" approach to dealing with
the reality that to build a sustainable network would require both
a real network and the sort of applications which people expect.
(Which goes far beyond the dumb terminal, BBS forwarding
paradigm.)
> >Perhaps it is this narrow thinking which
> >has caused the GRAPES network to become disconnected from the
> >larger and more extensive ham radio network? Makes sense.
>
> AFAIK there is no larger network. Certainly there aren't any of its
tentacles
> to be found on any of the borders of our network. We're willing to
switch the
> packets of any adjoining network, and have them switch ours. But as
far as
> I can determine, the larger network to which you allude just doesn't
exist.
> There are some low speed links here and there, and some other
organized
> networks at distant locales, but no coherent overreaching network
which
> can route and switch our packets.
It's abundantly apparent to everyone but Hank and Charles that this
"more extensive ham radio nework" to which they constantly refer
is only a figment of their imaginations/delusions.
- --
Carl R. Stevenson - WA6VSE
mailto:wa6vse@fast.net
http://www.users.fast.net/~wa6vse
NCI #1052
Director, NCI
Fellow, Radio Club of America
Senior Member, IEEE
Member, ARRL
Join NCI - Hams for the 21st Century!
Help modernize ham radio and assure its future survival!
http://www.nocode.org
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