| |
PA2AGA > HDDIG 12.10.99 17:17l 173 Lines 7734 Bytes #-9721 (0) @ EU
BID : HD_99_257H
Read: DL6KCF GUEST
Subj: HamDigitalDigest 99/257H
Path: DB0AAB<DB0ZKA<DB0LX<DB0RBS<DB0SWR<DB0FP<DB0SRS<DB0SIF<DB0HSK<PI8DRS<
PI8DAZ<PI8GCB<PI8HGL<PE1NMB<EA7URC<PE0MAR<PI8VNW
Sent: 991012/1230Z @:PI8VNW.#ZH2.NLD.EU #:7525 [HvHolland] FBB7.00g $:HD_99_257
From: PA2AGA@PI8VNW.#ZH2.NLD.EU
To : HDDIG@EU
Received: from pa2aga by pi1hvh with SMTP
id AA21159 ; Tue, 12 Oct 99 10:59:26 UTC
Received: from pa2aga by pa2aga (NET/Mac 2.3.67/7.5.3) with SMTP
id AA00016357 ; Tue, 12 Oct 99 07:47:47 MET
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 99 07:44:28 MET
Message-Id: <hd_99_257H>
From: pa2aga
To: hd_broadcast@pa2aga
Subject: HamDigitalDigest 99/257H
X-BBS-Msg-Type: B
> capabilities of the web server. This has in fact been done, several
> times, by various hams. Perhaps those hams might consider making their
> work available to others in the ham radio network as well as on the
> internet. Doing so might help move the digital networking facet of
> our hobby forward. i.e. "The folks using html on ham radio are headed
> in the right direction."
>
> Disclaimer: Yes, I know the above sounds a lot like the integration
> of ham radio networking with the internet. That is exactly what it is.
> I hope everyone can understand the difference between taking ideas
> and techniques from the internet for use in ham radio, and replacing
> ham radio with the internet itself. I propose the former, and not
> the later.
>
> ... Hank - W0RLI
> _^___^_
> \\|// / 0 O \ __
> (O O) <| V |> /..\
> ----oOO--(_)--OOo------o000o-U-o000o------oOO--(____)--OO---
> http://home.horedson.att.net
>.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 04:52:57 +0000
From: "D. Stussy" <kd6lvw@bde-arc.ampr.org>
Subject: The BBS network and tcp/ip.
On Sat, 9 Oct 1999, Don wrote: [Directed to W0RLI]
> Your plan appears to be only slightly different than what is happening
> right now with the AX/IP Internet links. The only difference is that you
> are proposing to use newsgroups through "gateway systems" as the file
> transfer mechanism as opposed to using "direct" file transfer between "ham
> radio" bbs stations which encapsulate the AX.25 protocol in TCP/IP frames
> for transmission over the Internet. At least the current system does
> preserve the MID/BID system so that duplicate messages are easily "caught"
> and not retransmitted because the bbs still will recognize the AX.25 bbs
> protocol.
I don't see this as an issue (Message ID's). NNTP supports a message-id field
and "inn" (an NNTP server in the UNIX world, including Linux) will reject a
Usenet message if it already has a matching message-ID to one in its history
file. I see this as identical in function to what the AX.25 network currently
does....
> The other concern that I have about your plan is that there is no apparent
> way to limit the use of the network to licensed hams, thereby insuring that
> commercial use and/or "spam" does not end up on ham radio linked bbs
> systems. With the current AX/IP transfer mechanism, only those stations
> properly authorized by the "gateway" systems have access to the ham radio
> bbs system from the Internet.
That's why I proposed the newsgroup hierarchy: "ax25.*"...
> I certainly have no problems if you choose to use TCP/IP and newsgroups
> protocols over radio between the "gateway" stations except that it has been
> my experience that TCP/IP has way more overhead than what the
> run-of-the-mill 1200 baud links can handle in a crowded environment. I
> also think it is unreasonable to expect the masses to rush right out and
> buy the piece-parts for 56KB radio links. As I recall the history of
> packet, 1200 baud was chosen because of the availability of the
> off-the-shelf modem parts using the Bell 202 standard. The current run of
> Rockwell/Lucent 56KB surface mount devices isn't too practical for the
> average ham with a 100 watt American Beauty soldering iron! Nor do they
> work 1/2 duplex as most ham stations require.
There may be some problem here with overhead. However, note the following:
About 1.5 years ago, another station and I performed a test of TCP/IP by
FTP'ing a large file (in fact, the JNOS 1.11x3 source - pkzipped) of about
1.3Mb over a 1200 baud link, on a frequency where about 5-10 other TCP/IP
stations existed and were beaconing every 10 minutes. The transfer took 11.5
hours and it did complete. That was an effective throughput of about 300
baud,
and at least two of the other stations sharing the frequency had a meaningful
connection during the transfer.
There's always a problem with "How many stations will a frequency support?"
The real question should be: "Will the number of stations that the frequency
will support increase, decrease, or remain unchanged, if TCP/IP replaces pure
AX.25?" and as a side question: "How will effective throughput change?"
> Do I have a better solution? Not yet. I'd hope the new rules on spread
> spectrum emissions will encourage higher bit rate data radios. Maybe some
> wizard will figure out how to tweak a Qualcom digital PCS radio into the
> ham band and make packet fly! Let's face it, without the old converted
> Motorola and GE radios, 2 meter and 440 ham bands would not be as popular
> as they are today! The same thing can happen again, only this time high
> speed digital!
>.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 04:40:22 +0000
From: "D. Stussy" <kd6lvw@bde-arc.ampr.org>
Subject: The BBS network and tcp/ip.
Comments are in-line.
On Sat, 9 Oct 1999, Hank Oredson wrote:
> A couple folks asked that I repost my specific suggestions
> on how to migrate the existing BBS network to the model in
> current use on the internet. Here they are again. Not well
> organized, a bit of babble, but specific ideas. Would they
> work in practice? I don't know (yet) but may implement some
> of them and find out.
>
> Each BBS network message type has an equivalent internet
> application and protocol. For the BBS network to interoperate
> with these applications and protocols we need some number
> of "gateway" systems which do the appropriate translations.
Or require that all future BBS's be TCP/IP compliant (even if NOT hooked to
the
Internet). Then, no data conversion would be necessary.
> 1) Bulletins map to net news and the nntp protocol.
> We need a set of newsgroups defined to map to/from the common
> BBS network topics. One solution would be to use newsgroups
> of the form alt.hamradio.<topic> where <topic> is the To:
> field of the BBS message. Thus we would have, for example,
> alt.hamradio.keps, alt.hamradio.sysop, alt.hamradio.all
> The "gateway" servers would move messages both directions
> using the obvious and simple mapping.
Easy: New hierarchy: ax25.*
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 21:52:29 -0700
From: "Hank Oredson" <horedson@att.net>
Subject: The BBS network and tcp/ip.
Don <dnelsch@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:38000779.D2EFA183@neo.rr.com...
> Hank,
>
> Your plan appears to be only slightly different than what is happening
> right now with the AX/IP Internet links. The only difference is that you
> are proposing to use newsgroups through "gateway systems" as the file
> transfer mechanism as opposed to using "direct" file transfer between "ham
> radio" bbs stations which encapsulate the AX.25 protocol in TCP/IP frames
> for transmission over the Internet. At least the current system does
> preserve the MID/BID system so that duplicate messages are easily "caught"
> and not retransmitted because the bbs still will recognize the AX.25 bbs
> protocol.
Nothing I mentioned involves the internet, nor encapsulation of AX.25
over tcp. What I'm talking about is the exact opposite: tcp/ip over AX.25
(or NET/ROM or whatever ham radio protocol one wishes).
SNOS handles the BID issue as well as the RFC-822 message id
To be continued in digest: hd_99_257I
Read previous mail | Read next mail
| |
