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PA2AGA > HDDIG 12.10.99 13:12l 230 Lines 7699 Bytes #-9721 (0) @ EU
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Subject: HamDigitalDigest 99/257A
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Ham-Digital Digest Mon, 11 Oct 99 Volume 99 : Issue 257
Today's Topics:
Download Ia.n.i.!!! It's free! (2 msgs)
For Sale: Yaesu FT-736R
Let's look at real numbers for TNC software sales (5 msgs)
PACTOR or AMTOR (8 msgs)
The BBS network and tcp/ip. (11 msgs)
Send Replies or notes for publication to: <Ham-Digital@UCSD.Edu>
Send subscription requests to: <Ham-Digital-REQUEST@UCSD.Edu>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to brian@ucsd.edu.
Archives of past issues of the Ham-Digital Digest are available
(by FTP only) from ftp.UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/ham-digital".
We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party. Your mileage may vary. So there.
Loop-Detect: Ham-Digital:99/257
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 9 Oct 1999 07:55:22 GMT
From: madQ <madq968@djeksta.comNOSPAM>
Subject: Download Ia.n.i.!!! It's free!
Download Ia.n.i. RemoteControlSystem 1.2 beta. It's free!!!
New site: http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/apple/1030/
>.
------------------------------
Date: 8 Oct 1999 22:03:42 GMT
From: madQ <madq968@djeksta.comNOSPAM>
Subject: Download Ia.n.i.!!! It's free!
Download Ia.n.i. RemoteControlSystem 1.2 beta. It's free!!!
New site: http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/byte/517/
>.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 03:00:48 GMT
From: hrudy1@my-deja.com
Subject: For Sale: Yaesu FT-736R
For Sale Yaesu FT-736R 2 m / 70 cm
rate radio as a 9.5 on a scale 1 to 10
Radio was new 2yr ago from HRO.
Moved and never put radio on the air.
Still in box, w / tone bd, hand mic, manual.
Asking $950.00 obo + shipping
contact <hrudy@lgcy.com>
KA7YWO
Howard Rudy
Salt Lake City, Ut
801-532-8511
Also have klm sat ant 2m/70cm, make offer.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
>.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 18:13:49 -0700
From: "Hank Oredson" <horedson@att.net>
Subject: Let's look at real numbers for TNC software sales
Gary Coffman <ke4zv@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:bFn=N9spdFY3yiWFZDqWgMnjx84U@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 3 Oct 1999 22:20:24 -0700, "Hank Oredson" <horedson@att.net>
wrote:
> >
> >Gary Coffman <ke4zv@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> >news:Xw34NxHJf+EF064afvXkDcnPO0tB@4ax.com...
> >
> >> >Gary, that is exactly what I said.
> >> >"power spread":. the difference between transmit and receive
> >> >power levels at the radio. ERP minus noise floor. Both in dbm.
> >>
> >> Ah, we appear to have a terminology problem. What you're
> >> describing is called * link margin*. Power spreading is dispersion
> >> of the signal over a wide area, generally an undesirable condition
> >> unless you're intent on broadcasting rather than linking.
> >
> >Gary,
> >
> >Read it again. "... at THE radio ...".
> >
> >"Link Margin" has to do with two stations, the path between them,
> >the desired S/N, the effects due to propagation, component drift, etc.
>
> Correct.
>
> >"Power Spread" has to do with one radio. It does not consider
> >such things as the path (because there is only one radio), or
> >any of the other effects that determines "Link Margin". It is a number
> >which describes the capabilities of that radio.
>
> ???? Radios generally aren't used to talk to themselves (excepting
> radar or EME), so this seems a particularly useless expression for
> network link calculations.
>
> >Ya wanna quibble terminology, is fine with me.
> >But sure has little to do with the subject at hand: building links.
>
> To build a link requires at least *2* radios, and the path between
> them. To calculate that, you need to know the ERP of one station
> versus the MDS of the other and vice versa. Numbers which only
> relate a station to itself aren't of any value.
Unless you are interested in purchasing a Station, in which case you
need those numbers so you can figure out what to purchase.
Networks are not always built by a single person. Sometimes one
ham works with another ham to use what equipment they might
both have available or might be willing to purchase. So one might
make trade-offs, as I pointed out in a different post.
I understand these things never happen in your narrow minded view
of Ham Radio Networking. They do happen in the real world. Often.
> Gary
> Gary Coffman KE4ZV | You make it |mail to ke4zv@bellsouth.net
> 534 Shannon Way | We break it |
> Lawrenceville, GA | Guaranteed |
--
... Hank
http://horedson.home.att.net
>.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 18:24:24 -0700
From: "Hank Oredson" <horedson@att.net>
Subject: Let's look at real numbers for TNC software sales
Gary Coffman <ke4zv@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:e1v=N1IBV7xwV00WtHBg+PxnWmoB@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 3 Oct 1999 22:27:34 -0700, "Hank Oredson" <horedson@att.net>
wrote:
> >
> >Gary Coffman <ke4zv@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> >news:Xw34NxHJf+EF064afvXkDcnPO0tB@4ax.com...
> >
> >> >"... well engineered .." makes no sense. The paths are what they are.
> >> >They go, for example, from my house to your house.
> >>
> >> That's where they end up, perhaps after several intermediate relay
hops.
> >> But each hop path has to be properly engineered. That means proper
siting,
> >> proper link margin, and proper consideration of multipath issues. This
> >isn't
> >> Olde Tyme Radio, we don't have to make the entire trip in one hop.
Digital
> >> networks are naturally suited to automatic relay.
> >
> >> >This is the long haul case we are talking about. You don't *normally*
> >> >put large dishes or large yagi arrays anywhere except on your own
> >> >property. Way too hard to maintain if they are not local. Exceptions
> >> >exist of course, but I've never personally encountered one.
> >>
> >> Nor have I. With an adequate number of properly engineered relay sites,
> >
> >Gary,
> >
> >Do you intentionally misread?
> >We were talking about a single link.
> >A path between two stations.
> >Between exactly two relay points.
> >One of those hops in the network.
>
> Yes, I understood that. What you don't seem to understand is that
> if the numbers work out to an unreasonable solution, as in the cases
> you've given, you don't do that single link. You do a different topology
> instead that will give acceptable numbers. That will involve more than
> one hop, but total network performance will improve.
You *do* intentionally misread!
Imagine my surprise.
As stated many times, "... different topology ..." is not always possible.
These are not commercial networks. These are hams, playing around
with digital modes on their ham radios. As hams, we can do what we
want. We are not constrained to build only perfect networks. We get
to have some fun!
Your narrow view of ham radio networking precludes such fun.
But everyone already knew that.
> >> however, there is never a need for such large antenna structures
> >
> >> >For the long haul case, it is rare that the path is line of sight.
> >> >Usually it is a scatter path of some nature.
> >> >Example: the troposcatter path from the Lowell, MA area to
To be continued in digest: hd_99_257B
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