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PA2AGA > HDDIG 26.09.99 10:00l 210 Lines 7854 Bytes #-9759 (0) @ EU
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Date: Sun, 26 Sep 99 01:04:07 MET
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From: pa2aga
To: hd_broadcast@pa2aga
Subject: HamDigitalDigest 99/241O
X-BBS-Msg-Type: B
That's a pretty pitiful outlook. Sorry, but I don't subscribe to that kind
of "thinking".
Phil strikes me as not being on the "Ham Radio" team at all. I don't know
what "side" he is on, but obviously it isn't Ham Radio.
"Internet backup", my butt. You should be ashamed of yourself to denigrate
Hams and Ham Radio that way.
>
> But Charles please, please. . . let's not have others steal all of our
> oceans of UHF and uWave bandwidth, just because we are too slow to use it!
Yes, exactly. - And total usage of those bands in the US has dropped right
through the floor due to the activities of the tcpip community here.
Thanks for making my point.
If you go by results rather than rhetoric, then amateur tcpip is the worst
thing that ever happened to Amateur Packet Radio. It just about killed
packet in the US.
> Use it or loose it! We really need to fill up our frequencies with wide
and
> broadband applications and attract a whole new generation of kids in
junior
> and high school to our grand hobby. Otherwise all of us "old farts" will
> wither and die and take ham packet radio with us!
>
> The only place we can reasonably use all of that bandwidth is on the
> access.
If you are trapped in some weird twilight-zone dimension where only tcpip
exists, that statement might then reflect "reality".
Fortunately, I'm still here on planet Earth, and my options are not that
limited.
>You have admitted yourself many times, recently on the "wide open
> spaces" thread, that hams will never be able to build a big pipe long
haul
> radio network.
Nope. Read again. I said that we don't know how to do it now, and offered a
few hints as to how we can overcome some of the limitations that presents.
Back in the days of spark-gap transmitters, it was well known that radio
voice communications to the far side of the planet was simply not
possible. - And it wasn't - THEN.
The point is that running across an obstacle you do not know how to handle
is not an indication that you should throw up your hands and give up. To do
so is contrary to the spirit of amateur radio, and pre-supposes that future
hams cannot possibly make any progress beyond the bounds of our present
knowledge.
"If I can't figure it out, then by God nobody else is going to either!"
Well, that's one self-fulfilling prophesy that I have absolutely no
intention of participating in. I'm no quitter, thank you very much, and I
have faith not only in my fellow man, but also in my fellow ham.
>
> Charlie get with it!
That's exactly where I am. Remember that "it" is Ham Radio, not tcpip.
The hobby is not "Amateur TCPIP", it's Amateur RADIO.
Are you "with it", now?
>
> Hello ! ! ! The Internet is here! The kids are on fire with interest,
when
> I bring the local neighborhood kids into my shack to hear me talk on short
> wave, they go to sleep!
My kids go to sleep sometimes while connected to the Internet. So what?
Maybe you just don't have the spirit needed to make radio look interesting
to others. It takes more than just shoving them in front of a radio and
saying "there it is!" You have to believe in what you are doing in order to
give a convincing presentation.
I don't see any evidence in your attitude that you really believe in Ham
Radio, or that you have any real confidence in your fellow hams.
>Face it the generation that you grew up in was
> interested in radio, radio was hot, hot, just like the Internet today,
Horse-hockey! The old folks had gotten rid of the family radio and bought a
TV years before I was born. When I was a kid, radio was something to listen
to music with, and that was just because they hadn't invented and marketed
music videos at that time. Then I got a record player and found that I
preferred to pick out my own music, rather than listen to the "top 40" over
and over again.
Next thing I knew, I was listening to Captain Beefheart, Bartok, the Fugs,
Eric Dolphy, and the Mothers of Invention while my schoolmates were still
hung up on the Beach Boys and Jan 'n Dean. Go figure.
My Dad had a Ham Radio station, but everybody knew that those people he
struggled so hard to communicate with by radio could always be called up on
the phone if communication (in itself) was a priority.
Then as now, I understood that the REAL priority in Ham Radio is
communication via Ham Radio.
Peter, get with it! They don't call it Amateur RADIO for nothing!
> Today the kids, they are not building crystal sets and listening to CB any
> more, they are on the net.
Very few kids built crystal sets and listened to CB when I was a kid, just
like now. Whatever they choose to do instead is irrelevant. Back then, we
watched TV a lot, and in my case designed and built radio-control model
aircraft. Non-ham is Non-ham.
>
> Let's try to develop ham packet radio systems that will be interesting to
> them and attract those young folks.
I'm only shooting for those who have an interest in radio. Those who are
interested in radio will expect me, as a Ham, to communicate by radio and
will be disappointed and disillusioned to see me "pretend" to use the radio
over the Internet they are already so familiar with.
Kids today get the Internet at school, and then go home to zone out on even
more of it. Internet is not fascinating to them; The stuff they see there
is. They could care less about tcpip and those wonderful tcpip apps that
just blend in as part of the furniture for the average kid. They only really
get excited about new video games, and that for only a short while.
Face it; The generation that is growing up now takes the Internet for
granted, and see nothing exotic or exciting about it. Radio, on the other
hand, is something they generally know very little about. It's "new" to
them, and if presented properly it is quite exciting as well.
If we are smart, we will point out the differences between packet radio and
the Internet, not try to eliminate them.
If we are smart, we will work to have our own independent network, not give
up and take a free ride on the back of the Internet.
One thing about kids too... They have no respect whatsoever for phonies.
Tell them you are going to show them Ham Radio and let them find out that
you are copping out with an Internet connection and they will get bored in a
hurry. Your experience bears this out.
They've all done much more interesting things on the familiar Internet than
THAT, and will wonder what your point is, in buying tons of expensive
equipment and getting a special communications license so that you can
arrange slow, third-rate Internet access for yourself. They'll just figure
that you are an eccentric idiot, and rightly so.
The idea is to try to be impressive, not to look like a clown.
--
Charles Brabham, N5PVL
N5PVL @ N5PVL.#NTX.TX.USA.NOAM
http://www.texoma.net/~n5pvl
>.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 15:25:45 -0500
From: "Charles Brabham" <n5pvl@texoma.net>
Subject: On the Packet Net:
I saw this on packet this morning:
==========================
From: WA2FNQ
To : Flex@ALLUS
Title :FlexNet connects...
On August 30th KA1YIQ wrote to TRIBBS:
>The Greater Fairfield Amateur Radio Association has now been online with
>FlexNet for more than 6 months. I've been Sysop of WB1CQO for the last 5
>years and I have to say that since the conversion to FlexNet, I've never
>seen the network perform smoother! I have only visited our node site once
To be continued in digest: hd_99_241P
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