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PA2AGA > HDDIG 20.09.99 23:41l 175 Lines 7133 Bytes #-9772 (0) @ EU
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From: pa2aga
To: hd_broadcast@pa2aga
Subject: HamDigitalDigest 99/236H
X-BBS-Msg-Type: B
discussion is wasted; it's your way or the highway. I stand to sway no one
that
supports your perspective of what one facet of amateur radio should be for
others that choose to do other things with their recreation time. It appears
that your loss of influence in a facet of the hobby that few care about, now,
has corrupted your judgement.
>> Life is too short. I am "gung ho" for the concept of a
>> national/regional/local "high speed?" network, but except for a few
>> high tech regions of the US, with sufficiently motivated techies to do
>> it for there own satisfaction and the use by others, the choices of
>> most folk I have spoken to are on to other things; and they aint
>> looking back except to swap lies over an 807.
>
>You don't know anyone who wants to use radio... I'm not surprised, with
>the attitudes you are displaying here. What rational Ham would want to
>associate with you?
>
>Again, maybe you've wandered into a discussion you are not really suited
>for.
>
Your sophistry is transparent. I said most folk that I know have moved
from rf "packet" to other things, relative to the context of this
discussion, the internet. They didn't give a rat's a.. whether you or I
wanted an rf network.
>>
>> For the average Joe Ham, there is no real desire or reason for an rf
>> data network.
>
>Tell that to the thousands of Hams who use the BBS system here in the US
>despite the best efforts of the A folks... Then tell it to the thousands
>more who do the same thing a lot better in Europe because they never had
>>an A problem in the first place.
>
>For several years now, a number of FlexNet nodes in Europe have been
>moving peak loads of better than 10 MB of data an hour. This represents
>not only a level of technical achievement unheard-of in the USA, but
>also a vital and enthusiastic packet community who obviously DO enjoy
>communicating via packet radio.
>Sorry, but you are not going to convince me that buying packet equipment
>for use with the high-speed net in Europe is cheaper than simple
>Internet access. It's more expensive to get Internet access there, but
>not THAT much more expensive. Those hams use the packet net because
>that's what they - as hams - want to do and enjoy.
If those folks in the US and Europe choose to develop and support an rf
data network, of their own choosing without government regulatory
pressure, more power to them. That argument does not recognize the mass
exodus of rf packet network developers, users and supporters from the US
packet network because they choose to do so. Wanna threaten them with
summary execution for making personal choices inconsistent with your or
my personal desires?
>
>Making global judgments based on experiences gained within an isolated,
>insulated clique of geeks would go far in explaining your outlook. -
>Been hanging out with the A crowd lately?
If you are the duly elected or appointed representative of the B crowd,
as you have explained the difference, I would join the great "unwashed"
As as a matter of principle. I oppose the philosophy that the enjoyment
of my hobby is based on the implied premise that the As should be able to
coherse B support by government regulatory pressure, public shaming and
ridicule.
>
>> Nothing you can offer can compete with the landline internet that
>> has sucked up most motivated amateur radio rf networking talent and
>> the appliance operators that would have to support such a national rf
>> network.
>
>Yes, exactly. This is why it's utterly moronic to pursue the goal of
>melding the Internet and Packet radio together. You guarantee failure
>for yourself, and a future that holds nothing more than a promise than
>to be a bloodsucking parasite, hanging off of the Internet's butt.
The investment of my life in the rf data network in my corner of the
world was a "failure". I am not bitter that a better option for users
came along. That's life, progress and in general "The American Way". You
may wail about it. I embraced it.
>
>This may be hard for you to follow or understand, but there are a
>significant number of Hams who got into Ham Radio in order to use radio,
>not for cheesy, third-rate Internet access for "free". (After buying
>hundreds of dollars worth of equipment) These persons have no interest
>whatsoever in hanging off of the Internet's butt, instead being
>interested in an independent, all-ham-radio digital net that they can be
>proud to be part of. A network built on Ham Radio, by Hams.
>
>It doesn't surprise me that you would insist that nobody wants a packet
>net. In your little world, you are probably completely right on that
>score.
There is no response to the above fabricated "straw man" drivel other than.
1. I was proud of, and enjoyed my involvement in the development of an rf
packet network in my area while the support and desire of others existed and
justified my involvement. I feel no shame, guilt or recrimination against
those
that chose the internet option, when it became available. The relative values
were set by the users.
2. You are a condescending twerp.
>
>> You can rail against "progress" and as Peter referred to, the
>> consequence of economical and abundant plug and play solutions with
>> the reliable connectivity that is available to most due to the
>> economics of scale and competition. I, too, mourn the loss of our
>> archaic packet network, but given the current choices, the scenario of
>> a national high/slow speed rf network is a pipe dream.
>
>Yes, that's what the world looks like to you A types... Thanks, but no
>thanks! I found out a long time ago what "can't" gets accomplished, in
>comparison to what "can" will do.
>
>Silly of me I suppose, but I have faith not just in my fellow man, but
>also in my fellow hams. Sorry you do not see things that way, but I
>understand that a crappy attitude is a vital part of the A way of doing
>things, so I won't try to change you or convince you to do otherwise.
>
>Poor thing.
>
I 'spose, like it or not, earned or not, I beez an A. As such I will be true
to
my nature and hitch a ride on the internet and enjoy it, rather than try to
beat my fellow hams into submission to follow my view of of what their hobby
should be; because, a de facto hobby it is.
>--
>
>Charles Brabham, N5PVL
>N5PVL @ N5PVL.#NTX.TX.USA.NOAM
>http://www.texoma.net/~n5pvl
>
>
I will leave you to wallow in your self pity, as an insignificant frog might,
watching its pond dry up.
Rave on!
Pete/wa4hei
>.
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End of Ham-Digital Digest V99 #236
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