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PA2AGA > HDDIG 19.09.99 14:03l 195 Lines 7692 Bytes #-9775 (0) @ EU
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From: pa2aga
To: hd_broadcast@pa2aga
Subject: HamDigitalDigest 99/234B
X-BBS-Msg-Type: B
high-efficiency packet. (which gives you higher speed too, but in a
different way)
The performance of the standard 1.2kb half-dup model is very well known.
It's a standard of performance that hams can easily compare to what they see
on the fulldup link.
I'm hoping that interested Hams will try out my fulldup 1.2kb link and be so
impressed as to have trouble believing that it's really 1.2kb. Of course 1.2
kb is much cheaper and easier to work with too, and I won't complain about
that.
Then I'm hoping that more knowlegable US hams may find themselves wondering
how well a HTS-free 19.2 kb fulldup link would compare to 56kb half-dup. -
And so on.
It's like having the same old 350 chevy in your car, but overnight somebody
swapped out your 4-bbl carb for a roots pump. (supercharger) I think that
once US packet ops are made aware of the benefits to be had from fulldup
setups, it will appeal to many of them who are presently having trouble
getting enough throughput to do what they want.
--
73 DE Charles Brabham, N5PVL
N5PVL @ N5PVL.#NTX.TX.USA.NOAM
http://www.texoma.net/~n5pvl
>.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:02:17 -0500
From: "Charles Brabham" <n5pvl@texoma.net>
Subject: FullDup RF links, anyone?
Rob Janssen <nomail@pe1chl.demon.nl> wrote in message
news:slrn7u3qtr.b8q.nomail@linux.pe1chl.ampr.org...
>
> You guys in the US may think that you are at the forefront of technology,
> but over here in Europe we have realized that point 10 years ago, and full
> duplex link transceivers have been developed and widely deployed.
Yes, I know... That's why I'm trying to get a few folks over here to take
the blinders off for a few minutes and see what the other big monkees are
doing over on the far side of the pond.
They're getting all the bannanas, and we're stuck with these stale nuts and
grubs!
--
73 DE Charles Brabham, N5PVL
N5PVL @ N5PVL.#NTX.TX.USA.NOAM
http://www.texoma.net/~n5pvl
>.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:02:30 -0500
From: "George T. Baker" <w5yr@swbell.net>
Subject: FullDup RF links, anyone?
Rob, granted that you have excellent radio networking capabilities - and
are to be congratulated upon the accomplishment! - I still have a
question in my mind:
What do you *DO* with the networks?
This is not a "dumb question" nor am I attempting to flame anyone or
start an argument. I just honestly don't know what I or most any other
ham would do with a packet network, regardless of how well it works.
Color me stupid or behind the times, I guess . . .
I was active in packet radio and in starting TPRS and TexNet in the
mid-80's here in Texas, although I left the scene shortly after TexNet
became a reality as my interests changed about that time. But, as I
recall I had the problem even then of trying to figure out what to *DO*
with TexNet or any other packet network. We had a couple of local BBS
stations that seemed to handle the messages and for sale ads, etc. and
there was some local rag-chewing simplex. But, what to do with an amateur
network between Dallas and Houston? You couldn't even get on and see if
anyone in the Houston area was on and just wanted to chat . . .
I found it to be an excellent hobby network for those who wanted to play
with building and then running a network, but having just retired from
Texas Instruments where I was responsible for several years for the
performance and availability of over 30,000 terminals on the TI worldwide
network, I really didn't want any more of that kind of "fun." ;^)
As you can tell from my sig file, I have been at this foolishness for a
few years and dearly love the radio side of ham radio. I still get a kick
out of tossing a wire in a tree and talking to a guy halfway around the
world. I am seriously engaged in digital communications in the shack,
chiefly PSK31 on HF at the moment, as well as CW operation, etc. I hardly
qualify as a "landline lid."
But, here it is 15 or so years later and I think that I am reading folks
still asking and discussing the question: "What do you *DO* with a
network?
The only real applications of packet that seems to have had any effect
are APRS and the DXcluster. I suppose that these "applications" would be
reason enough for a network, although in the case of the DXclusters, the
Net has already pretty well taken that job giving one the ability to
interact with DXcluster nodes all over the world.
So, at the risk of setting Brabham off again, what would you do that at
present can't be done better, cheaper and faster over the Net, except
that the Net doesn't give us the opportunity to use amateur radio as a
transmission means? BTW, I firmly agree that if we are in the business of
building and operating an amateur radio network, we should use amateur
radio links throughout.
But, you see, I really have a problem trying to explain to some folks,
such as my 12-year old grandson, why I peck at a keyboard in the shack to
talk at 31 bps via PSK31 to some guy when I could just as easily chat
with him at much higher data rates - even on voice or video - at much
less cost and fuss. I try to emphasize the "radio" angle and the "thrill"
of it all, but that falls on deaf ears in the modern world.
I talk weekly to my son K5SR who is Information Officer at the US Embassy
in Sarajevo in Bosnia. We voice-chat by Yahoo Pager and have excellent
quality and reliability. Delta cost = zero for the capability or time.
Because of such, I am unable to persuade my son to get back into ham
radio since I can offer him nothing that is not already freely available
on the Net.
Nonetheless, I will enjoy yammering on a mic, working cw and chatting on
a keyboard for as long as I live. Now, if I could just understand what it
is that I am missing by not having an amateur radio network?
72/73, George AMA 98452 R/C since 1964
Amateur Radio W5YR, in the 54th year and it just keeps getting better!
AutoPOWER Systems, Fairview, TX (30 mi NE Dallas) Collin County
QRP-L QRP-ARCI FISTS NORCAL ZOMBIE ARS 10-X 33.2 N 96.6 W EM13RE
Rob Janssen wrote:
> You guys in the US may think that you are at the forefront of technology,
> but over here in Europe we have realized that point 10 years ago, and full
> duplex link transceivers have been developed and widely deployed.
>
> They usually operate on 1240/1299 MHz (59 MHz split) with a duplexfilter
> DF9IC developed. The transceiver is usually one of his designs.
>
> *of course* it will perform better than halfduplex. and with crappy
> Japanese transceivers it may well perform better on 1k2 than a halfduplex
> 9k6 link does. but of course nobody in his right mind would use 1k2, even
> fullduplex, on a node-node link.
> When your transceiver isn't suitable for 9k6, use the HAPN 4k8 modem.
>
> Rob
>.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:37:26 -0700
From: "Cathryn Mataga" <cathryn@junglevision.com>
Subject: FullDup RF links, anyone?
George T. Baker wrote in message <37E27426.7BAD150@swbell.net>...
>But, here it is 15 or so years later and I think that I am reading folks
>still asking and discussing the question: "What do you *DO* with a
>network?
For me, I think I am completely comfortable with the notion -- that at some
To be continued in digest: hd_99_234C
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