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PA2AGA > HDDIG 18.09.99 01:09l 186 Lines 7656 Bytes #-9778 (0) @ EU
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From: pa2aga
To: hd_broadcast@pa2aga
Subject: HamDigitalDigest 99/233C
X-BBS-Msg-Type: B
Subject: IMO: Rf network = pipedream
n5pvl@texoma.net (Charles Brabham) wrote in
<7rs4b0$1opl@enews4.newsguy.com>:
>
>That's what the Europeans did to get their fancy high-speed, large-scale
>network. They respected, maintained, developed and improved the same old
>1.2kb network we also had ten years ago. We spit on ours and abandoned it,
>so now we have nothing.
>
>--
>
>73 DE Charles Brabham, N5PVL
>N5PVL @ N5PVL.#NTX.TX.USA.NOAM
>http://www.texoma.net/~n5pvl
>
>
>
>
Hi, Charles.
I read some of the arguments and name calling here, and as an ex X1J node
operator/TCPIP/AX25 weenie I can appreciate much of the arguments,
regardless of whether I agree or not. The reference to the European model
makes me wonder if there are other incentives to motivate European hams to
expand and upgrade their network. I do not see operators with similar
disposable incomes opting for a "slow" radio data network when thay have
the same internet options as we do, at similar prices. I am of the opinion
that human nature is universal; given the same resources and options, we do
the same things, in general.
If I have other things to do with my life that I consider of greater value
to me, why should I choose "slow" data radio, of any flavor, after my
experience with packet wars and the bs politics of majority mediocrity?
Life is too short. I am "gung ho" for the concept of a
national/regional/local "high speed?" network, but except for a few high
tech regions of the US, with sufficiently motivated techies to do it for
there own satisfaction and the use by others, the choices of most folk I
have spoken to are on to other things; and they aint looking back except to
swap lies over an 807.
For the average Joe Ham, there is no real desire or reason for an rf data
network. Nothing you can offer can compete with the landline internet that
has sucked up most motivated amateur radio rf networking talent and the
appliance operators that would have to support such a national rf network.
You can rail against "progress" and as Peter referred to, the consequence
of economical and abundant plug and play solutions with the reliable
connectivity that is available to most due to the economics of scale and
competition. I, too, mourn the loss of our archaic packet network, but
given the current choices, the scenario of a national high/slow speed rf
network is a pipe dream.
As a "raver" for principles, I can appreciate tilting at windmills and the
occasional catcall, "Rave on!" ;-)
Pete/wa4hei
--
Eschew obfuscation.
>.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 02:15:30 GMT
From: steve_sampson@my-deja.com
Subject: leadership, was The Applications Mantra
chuckles wrote:
>
> It's the radios we are neglecting, not the software. The focus in the
> USA needs to be on using and developing RADIO, not the software which
> we have done well in developing but then found to be virtually
> meaningless without a network to use it with.
>
No shit, Sherlock!
Ok, lets explain it to you again. How many Hams do you know, want
to develop a network? None. The majority of Hams are Hams because
they think of the hobby as a voice mode. It's the rare Ham that goes
out of his way to get more than one tower going. Most often, there
is no support money-wise. This is for two reasons: 1) why have a
group getting in your way, and 2) accepting donations of money or
equipment gives people a vote. Most Hams like to do thir thing, and
you use what they provide.
Packet radio in the U.S. will never be referred to as a "network."
They might exchange BBS messages, or mail, but anything else on a
pure radio basis, will never have an end-to-end capability, or reliable
enough infrastructure. The ARRL is just now moving off the center of
the population bell-curve of Morse Code over everything, to the new
population of Hams (born well after the Choo-Choo) who never cared
about Morse code, nor ever will. The new license proposal they have
adopted, moves Morse code to the fringe. The digital part of the hobby
still has not gone anywhere since no-code was created (forced on the
ARRL by the FCC) because most no-code Hams have stuck to voice.
It's the 13 year olds we want to attract. Boys and Girls, and not
just retired white men. These kids are, at that age, what we used to
call computer scientists 20 years ago. How many of you have seen the
TV show on PBS called "Wishbone?" It's the black boy who's the nerd,
and the white kids are all into basketball. While overplayed, the boy
is an example of that age group, given enough money by their parents.
When I show packet radio to a youngster, they laugh. They roll over
and kick their feet as if they were in an epileptic fit, roaring with
laughter. After they recover from the initial shock, they then look
at the problem realistically. Bandwidth costs money, and retired
white men don't have it. Retired white men only know about wide-band
FM, or FSK. They can't comprehend Spread Spectrum, and any organization
that favors it is somehow a communist anti-morse code heathen.
The future of "packet radio" is wireless networking. The radio engineer
who can design a 10 watt 2.4 GHz box that sits between our wireless
ethernet cards and antenna, would be the infrastructure King or Queen.
Packet radio would then be TCP/IP by defacto. You can't do that with
Part 15 rules. 10 watts is only a dream. Ham radio with SS cards
and amps would be a revolution in wireless networking. It would
overnight change the way packets move across the state. Wide-band
1 MHz bandwidth (fog horn) technology is shit. Will always be shit.
Even the power companies don't use microwave anymore, they string
fiber with the electric power between high-tension towers.
When you get off your FSK and wide-band FM high horse, then and only
then will you be ready for the next packet radio. 10 watts at 300
feet running 1.6 Mbps will negate anything you could dream about your
TAPR TNC-2 clones funtionality. With whatever software you want to
connect serially to it.
Steve, K5OKC
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
>.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 07:30:25 GMT
From: nomail@pe1chl.demon.nl (Rob Janssen)
Subject: leadership, was The Applications Mantra
steve_sampson@my-deja.com <steve_sampson@my-deja.com> wrote:
>The digital part of the hobby
>still has not gone anywhere since no-code was created (forced on the
>ARRL by the FCC) because most no-code Hams have stuck to voice.
Be patient. We have had no-code licenses for about 35 years now, and
there is no such effect visible anymore. No-code licensees (like me)
are just as active on all non-voice modes (except morse code) as full
licensees are.
Maybe in the initial years you may view an effect like you see, because
there is an influx of people who always wanted to have a HAM license
to extend their CB capabilities, but did not want to pass a morse exam.
But when things have stabilized, it is just a matter of choice. Some
people are interested in morse code and HF bands, and pass the exam.
Others are not interested in that, and select the no-code option.
To be continued in digest: hd_99_233D
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