| |
SM7UZI > BPQ 18.08.99 18:52l 287 Lines 13185 Bytes #-9920 (0) @ EU
BID : SM7UZI6405
Read: GUEST
Subj: Re: BPQ Obsolete
Path: DB0AAB<DB0ZKA<DB0ABH<DB0SRS<DB0MW<DB0ERF<DB0SHG<DB0CEL<DB0EWB<DB0HHW<
DB0IL<OZ5BBS<OZ4PAC<OZ2DIZ<OZ2BOH<OZ4BBS<OZ4BOX<OZ7PAC<OZ3PAC<OZ6BBS<
SK7IQ
Sent: 990818/1054Z @:SK7IQ.MALMOE.M.SWE.EU #:47950 [Malmö] $:SM7UZI6405 FBB7.00
From: SM7UZI@SK7IQ.MALMOE.M.SWE.EU
To : BPQ@EU
sm3lks wrote:
>I think you just insulted all packetusers in the world by that statement.
>You just said that most users don't know what they are doing, and not
>knowing what packetradio is.
You think so?
I don't think the packetuser who are an example of the above mentioned
type understands that he should get insulted.
>I agree with you that some users don't know how to set their tnc, but they
>are not so many, and they are often getting help from others that know how
>to do it.
They are many!
The help they get is often to use the same setup as their neightbour, which
is not the way to do it!
Not very good!
>>Some of those reading this are node operator sysops etc and some of them
>>maybe have a little more packet knowledge.
>>But how shall that be sloved?
>I think I might be one of those users.
>Sysop for 2 bbs's, and 4 nodes. (Covering about 20% of the area of Sweden)
Nice!
>>>>Example: Just saing that BPQ has a bad packetdriver isn't enough.
>>>>Everyone doesn't know what a packetdriver is.
>>>They can always ask!
>I do now.
>What is your explanation of what a packetdriver is ?
>(Just to assure that we are talking the same language)
The software that handles the ax25 communication.
>No, but you might explain more so we understand you better.
>You can't assume we automatically knows what you are talking about.
>All users does'nt want to ask questions if they don't understand things,
>they might actually lose the interest of the subject instead.
Yes, but it is hard some times to know waht peole understand.
>>The performance of tfpcx is better than bpq, since bpq lack some
>>important, but evern better is flexnet!
>What features is so important ?
The packet sammler, the adaptive parameters, the 6pack support, the
support for modern hardwares and the dama support.
>>>You can't possible know how this configuration works.
>>>Have you seen it in action ?
>>Very similair setup!
>Similar is not near enough.
>Summary: you havn't seen it in action.
I'm I supposed to have done that?
Your system is not that interesting you are still using net/rom nodes!
>>You haven't compared with any other setup!
>How do you know that ?
>Do you know what comparisons I've done ?
>I didn't se you in the neighborhood when I did them ?
>I havn't told you what comparisons I've made.
No, but if it would have been of any interest I guess you had told me.
A bit shildish to day?
I'm living i a modern society where it is possible to gain knowledge without
experiencing every thing personaly, by reading talking to people etc.
I don't have to reinvent the wheel!
So waht is your point?
>>>Im am really interested in improving the network, but I'm realistic.
>>Try flexnet!
>>The better packet driver really imporves things, especially on user ports!
>Here we are again, no agument why I should use FlexNet, just telling me to
>do it. (No way I'm following such command)
>
>It's like a child that discovered something new, "Try it, try it. It's
>better that everything else you ever tested..."
>
>No facts WHY, or HOW it is better.
Ok, once more!
One major difference is that in net/rom is the routing based on
information setup by the sysop, that is used for the calculation of the
quallity! This doesn't work very good at all, that information is often false.
In good node systems, like x-net or flexnet is round trip time (rtt) used to
determine which way to route, no misconfigurations can ever destroy the
routing. That works good!
Also is the node braodcasts of net/rom sent out to seldom, the traffic load
etc changes mroe often than once in hour.
The links should be tested more often and that information send out more often
like when using flexnet.
Another difference is the net/rom adds very much overhead and doesn't use any
header compression, othe better nodes use header compresseion and less
overhead data.
Net/rom is also used when making a direct connection to e neighbour, even
though ther is no need for any routing, flexnet doesn't do that.
That is the major differences, that makes moder node systems work muhc better
than the old net/rom.
Since new nodes also uses a better packet driver with adaptive parameters etc
will that make the use of one of those nodes even better, especially on user
ports etc. You can't set accurate parameters on a user port since the number
of station changes etc.
Dama support is alos very use ful if your node covers a wide area, the use of
6pack makes it possibel to use highspeed packet with ourt much problem etc.
>Almost every bulleting that I've seen originating from FlexNet-fans has
>this single standard responce: "Use FlexNet !"
>(You are not the only one, but the message is exactly the same)
One reson is maybe that the differences between flexnet and other packet
drivers is hard to explain to many users who don't have the basic packet
knowledge to know if it is bad or good.
>>>I can't do changes in my corner, and automatically think that everyone is
>>>about to do the same changes.
>>So?
>I think that is quite an ignorant responce.
>You clearly want to run your own race, without checking that any other
>ever will follow you.
No, but I don't think it is possible to get every one else to do the same
chang at the same time.
Someone have to start and test out the new node etc, and if he likes it will
other follow. It is also better since he then can help his fellow node
operators with problems etc.
I don't even think it is possible to do it your way!
>I don't accept things to progress just because "it's time to do it".
>History has shown us that progress just for the cause of progress isn't
>so effective as it should have been if it came naturally.
>We must let the progress have it's own pace, you can't push it.
Not, but this changes of packet nodes etc have been going on for the last ten
years, it is nothing new.
It came naturally in the rest of europe, where they are interested in
experimenting etc. There have been better nodes avaliable a long time no, and
thwey are improved all the time since the speeds used are getting higher.
In places where they are used like in Germnay does it work very well, much
better that any net/rom network.
But we don't seems to have a real demand for a better packet network, I
don't think it will come natural here.
We still don't need to reintenving the wheel!
Other people have done the hard work for use!
>OK, how do you do that when FlexNet doesn't support NET/ROM-routing ?
>(Perhaps I have misunderstood some of the previous bulletins that said
>that FlexNet doesn't soppurt "that very strange routings" ?)
The whole point by using flexnet is that net/rom is not used!
You must have misunderstood everything!
You can link net/rom and flexnet nodes to gether, but you have to do a manual
hop at the nodes between the networks.
If you have thenetnode nodes is it not any problems, since it can use the
flexnet protocll. But it can be a problem for the flexnet network since
misconfigured net/rom nodes can destroy the flexnet routing also.
That is a problem in europe but it can be easely solved.
X-net nodes can handle both flexnet and net/rom, but that is into the reason
for using flexnet, that net/rom connecting function can you live without.
>>Could you please explain, I'm very interested!
>>Flexnet follows ax25 and works with every other packet driver doing that!
>It was a while ago, and the actual message is lost in space, but the
>FlexNet-node responded something like "Goodbye...." instead of the
>standard responce "Failure with..."
That is nothing flexnet reports, it is generated by the packet driver when it
get certain responses!
It is regulated by ax25 and there, are some responses, but no goodbye!
It is ax25 we are talking, not some node response etc?
The only thing it reports is if you use to long txd!
Don't know If I have understood what you mean realy!
>The calling program was assuming either "Connected to...",
>"Failure with..." or "Busy". The result was that it was waiting for the
>correct responce until it disconnected due to time-out.
Failure is time out.
>BPQ do follow the ax25-specifications, and NET/ROM-specification.
Net/rom but not realy ax25 does it look like, that results in protocol errors
some times.
A first I thought it had to do with the use of kiss, but It doesn't seem to be
the problem.
>If there is any problems in the transport of packets, it is almost always
>incorrect setup that causes the problems.
>It can be anything such as poor signal-path, wrong txdelay, wrong paclen,
>etc....
Not that problem, but it occur very seldom so it is not muhc of a problem
realy.
There are some bugs in bpq, this is one of them reveling it self I guess.
>To make a 2-port node, you must have:
>1 mastercard
>2 slavecards
>2 modemcards
>1 resetcard
>1 backplane
>(power supply)
>
>It might be just as reliable as any TNC, but not as you say; better.
>Too many cards to connect to eachother, with possible bad connnections
>in the backplane that might come with the time.
That was some very strange argument and I have never heard of any such
problems with te rmnc!
It is cheap reliable a multi processor system (real multitasking) uses very
little power and you can use 15 ports!
The quality of such a node is much higher than any ham radio tnc, maybe if you
get som tnc for commercial use you will get something as reliable.
Compared to a rmnc node is every amateru radio tnc crap.
And there are also a new rmnc verison comming for high speed packet!
I also like to cut and paste!
About rmnc and what makes it good:
Multiprozessorsystem
Jede Kanalrechnerkarte hat einen eigenen Prozessor mit RAM
Bus-System, hoher Datendurchsatz
Beliebig viele Computer anschliessbar
(TCP/IP-Terminal-Wetterstation-Mailbox-Clus ter)
Beliebig viele Funkgeräte anschliessbar (10m-2m-70cm-23cm)
Sehr geringer Stromverbrauch durch C-Mos-Bestückung
Keine Verschleissteile wie Lüfter, Diskettenlaufwerke oder Festplatten
Dynamisch erweiterbar (max. 15 Kanäle pro RMNC)
LED Anzeigen auf jeder Kanalrechnerplatine
Als Platine, Bausatz oder Fertiggerät erhältlich
Es lassen sich RMNC - 2 und RMNC - 3 Karten im gemischten Betrieb einsetzen.
Karten mit Taktfrequenz von 4, 8, 12 MHz lassen sich mischen.
Modulares System, für zukünftige Erweiterungen und Entwicklungen offen
Bewährte, stabile Technik
Hervorragende FlexNet Software verfügbar.
>I think the TNC-2-nodes is an easier, and a lot cheaper, thing to use,
>just insert the NET/ROM-EPROM in the TNC, and away you go.
But the problem is that it can't handle any good node!
It is worthless as node hardware, you can't use it without being stuck with
net/rom. If you would like to use a tnc based node, get a tnc3!
>The same amount of processortime as if you are using FlexNet.
The does you got your self some scsi hds?
>>But also the hd speed, amount of ram for hd cache, bus speed etc affects the
>>speed.
>Yes it does, regardless of the application.
If the applicatin uses the hd yes!
But old comotuers for packet radio use are there lots of, so to get a comptuer
to use should not be a probmem for anyoe.
>They were just as reliable then, if you used software without any
>bugs. Software, peripherials, etc... has been better over the years.
Bpq is as all other nodes relaible, when used as stand alon node.
But it is stil no good node.
>Using a 286 with modern peripherials, software compiled for 286, you have
>just as reliable computer as the newer ones, just slower.
No the quallity of the 286 computers is often lower than the quality of newer
computer.
>But I agree 286 is outdated in most parts of the world, but not useless
>or less reliable.
No it can be used, but there are so many better comptuers avaliable so there
are often no meaning in using it.
>It is as stable as you want it to be.
Yes but it is possible to run both a good and reliable node!
There are no need for net/rom nodes any more!
>AS I said: only 2 craches, of any kind, over the years. Both hd-craches
>that could happend even to a "stable" newer computer with FlexNet.
Get an ibm deskstar hd, it is a very good hd.
Don't know any one who have had any such problems with them.
>AX25-daemon: ax25d (ax25-utils-2.1.42a)
>NET/ROM-daemon: netromd (ax25-utils-2.1.42a)
>Userfrontend of the node: LinuxNode v0.2.4 (ax25-utils-2.1.42a)
>BBS-software: LinFBB v7.00g
Get rid of net/rom node and take a look at x-net (linux ent) or flexnet!
Much better routing!
Fbbs compressed forward shrinks this signature in to nothing!
.a&$a. .a&$a. .a&$$$$$$$$$$&a. .a&$a. Anders Lageras
$$$$$$ $$$$$$ $$$$$$$' `$$$$$$ $$$$$$ Lund Sweden JO65PQ
$' `$$ $$$$$$ `ý$$$$$s,s$$$$$ý $$$$$$ AARS Member No. 81
$s,s$$ $$$$$$ a$$$$$$ý $$' `$ Packet:
73 de SM7-$$$$$$ $$$$$$ a$$$$$$ý $$s,s$ SM7UZI@SK7IQ.MALMOE.M.SWE.EU
$$$$$$ $$' `$ a$$$$$$ý $$$$$$ E-mail: sm7uzi@qsl.net
$$$$$$a$$s,s$ a$$$' `$$$$$$&a. $$$$$$ ICQ#: 5161379
$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$s,s$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$ Homepage:
`ý&$$$$$$$$ý' `ý&$$$$$$$$$$$ý' `ý&$ý' http://zap.to/sm7uzi/
o==|=====-
Read previous mail | Read next mail
| |
