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ZL3AI > APRDIG 06.05.07 05:04l 274 Lines 11353 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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Subj: [APRSSIG] Vol 34 #27, 5/6
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Sent: 070506/0249Z @:ZL2BAU.#79.NZL.OC #:46487 [Waimate] $:10121-ZL3AI
From: ZL3AI@ZL2BAU.#79.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Message: 28
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 09:48:01 -0400
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga_at_usna.edu>
Subject: [aprssig] Traffic Speed Monitoring on APRS
>Guys, does this sound like right up Bob's alley?
>Hotwheels... makes a radar gun sold at walmart...
>for about $20 to $30. Wouldn't it be cool to hack
>it to get the [speed] out... and have a PIC
>[report] the speed of traffic [past a point].
Again, a very powerful part of the original APRS that has not been
realized. We included a SIGN-POST symbol in APRS just for this purpose of
showing SPEED past a speed sensor as just another LOCAL INFO item that
would be useful to the mobile operator.
The D700 and D7 display these by showing the NAME of the sensor,, its
location, direction and distance from you, and the speed of traffic at that
point. Perfect for placement at routine choke points to give APRS
operators advance warning of traffic problems.
A great HAM project.
Bob, WB4APR
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Message: 29
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 11:14:12 -0400
From: Steve Dimse <steve_at_dimse.com>
Subject: Re: [aprssig] APRS Coverage in Key West
On Apr 26, 2007, at 4:59 PM, Robert Bruninga wrote:
>>I'll be traveling down to Key West next month...
>>Looking at the current IS stream I'm not seeing any
>>digipeaters or anything down there.
>
>I think it has a WIDE,WIDE,WIDE,WIDE system because the TNC's at
>remote WX stations are acting as the digis, and to upgrade to
>New-N would require new hardware.
Correct
>If they simply made the old
>TNC's WIDE1-1 only, then they would me minimally New-N
>compatible, but only for 1 hop.
The county has no interest in APRS in general, they simply use this for a
very specific purpose, to get weather to the EOC in Marathon during
hurricanes and other emergencies.
>Their primary mission is to get the WX data to the Hurricane
>Center in Miami, so there has not been a lot of incentive to
>upgrade.
No, that is secondary to providing the data to their EOC in Marathon. With
no digis over 100 feet in the Keys, the path to Miami is unreliable.
>But for disaster response, I would think that
>upgrading to the higher network efficiency of the New-N system
>could be justified for incoming first responders with APRS....
There simply is no interest in their part. I tried years ago (when there
still were a dozen local users) without success. Now there are no local RF
users, so there is even less reason.
>Fortunately, running W,W,W,W on a linear string of digis in such
>a sparse area does not have the disadvantages of dupe
>multiplication that it has in 2dimensional systems elsewhere.
>SO maybe try W,W,W once you get south of Miami.
Few packets will get through to Miami and the Internet System. There is no
IGate here, and no local RF users. Getting packets up there depends on
propagation, it is not unusual to shut down for days. Look at any of the
weather stations for a visual display of this (this is the Key West one):
http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/wxpage.cgi?call=KQ4AZ-1&last=240
Bottom line, turn off the APRS rig, there are much better things to do here
than play ham radio anyway!
Steve K4HG
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Message: 30
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 11:14:15 -0400
From: Steve Dimse <steve_at_dimse.com>
Subject: Re: [aprssig] APRS Coverage in Key West
On Apr 26, 2007, at 6:51 PM, John wrote:
>Bob is basically correct. If you use w,w,w,then w2-2 that should
>get you to the KD4BBM-6 digi (at 1600' in Homestead, FL ) which is
>setup in the new style, then KO4E will Igate you
The path is much less reliable than this makes it sound, there are days
where nothing gets out of the middle and lower Keys, and often the route is
over water to Naples and WB2WPA-3.
Steve K4HG
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Message: 31
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:29:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: M J <mjandthegang_at_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [aprssig] Traffic Speed Monitoring on APRS
----- Original Message ----
From: Robert Bruninga <bruninga_at_usna.edu>
>Guys, does this sound like right up Bob's alley?
>Hotwheels... makes a radar gun sold at walmart...
>for about $20 to $30. Wouldn't it be cool to hack
>it to get the [speed] out... and have a PIC
>[report] the speed of traffic [past a point].
Again, a very powerful part of the original APRS that has not
been realized.
---------------------------------------
I notice this one, too:
http://www.ramseyelectronics.com/cgi-bin/commerce.exe?preadd=action&key=SG7
Does anyone know if there is any radar device that has a better chance of
working than another?
MJ
------------------------------
Message: 32
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 09:37:04 -0600
From: Joel Maslak <jmaslak-aprs_at_antelope.net>
Subject: [aprssig] Portable IGate
I just equipped my camping trailer with a satellite internet connection.
I'm going to be setting up a small server to provide IGate and Digi
functionality. (system also includes plenty of battery and solar!)
Although it has some obvious uses in an emergency, it will primarily be
used to "fill in" for my truck and man-portable APRS gear when I'm in the
middle of nowhere. It seems my travels often take me to places without
APRS I-gates (Savannah, GA) and/or digis (Yellowstone NP). I figure with
some PVC (or maybe one of those cool antenna masts that Bob posted about
last year) I can put up a decent antenna for a portable station, all the
while helping the stray out-of-area ham.
My question and the reason for posting...I know the danger of too many
digis, and will definitely configure things to not act as a digi when it is
not appropriate. But, as for IGate, the satellite connection has about a 1
second round-trip latency. Is that going to be an issue with dupe
prevention or anything else (everything I read indicates that this should
not be a problem whatsoever)? What's the symbol for a portable IGate/New-N
digi? :)
------------------------------
Message: 33
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 12:00:10 -0400
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga_at_usna.edu>
Subject: RE: [aprssig] Signal Locator WEB page
>>The technique noted above depends on properly equiped mobile DF
>>units with lots of equipment.
>
>No it does not. The normal Fox hunting equipment consisting
>of a radio, directional antenna, and of course an antenuator.
Yes, that was the equipment I was talking about. The stuff that is not
normally found in most ham mobiles at any instant when we need it. I
think being able to react to information from any station in the vicinity
at the time, until the fox hounds can be brought on the scene can greatly
improve our ability to localize signal sources.
>If someone pops up and asks for signal info and bearings
>because of a jammer or whatever, it is a matter of a few
>calls to either base stations or other hams to get
>bearings and go where the crosshairs say the Fox is.
>An object is placed at the spot by the client software for
>other "mappers" to visualize, then it is just the normal
>"close in sniffers" to finish it up..
I worry about the implied solution of a single ICON object when what is
actually the case is a rather large vague area. Unfocused observers may be
lead astray and confused. I hope that such objects are the APRS
area-objects that draw a larger circular area of probability. APRS can
display such area objects and the radius of the circle can be adjusted as
the accuracy of the estimate is improved.
When the circle of probability object of DF bearings is displayed at the
same time as all of the Omni-DF circles of probability, they all contribute
together to the overall solution. Too many times I have seen instantaneous
DF bearing intersections to be DEAD wrong. And putting out wrong
infomratino permanently contined into a single point on a map which has no
indication to the viewer as to the degree of probability, can be very
missleading.. Just something to watch out for.
>>Uiview doesn't even provide the fundamental antenna
>>height and coverage info without people loading an add-on.
>>And without being able to see instantly what approximate
>>area coverage each home station has, then it is hopeless
>>to make any sense out of Uiview stations.
>
>Sorry to hear you consistantly "bash" another client
>the way you have over the years! A shame on you Bob.
Im sorry to hear you see it as bashing. It is simply fundamental to ham
radio that the single most important parameter to any station (besides his
location) is his antenna height. Antenna height can have a difference in
station coverage from an HT with maybe 4 square miles to a house on a hill
which can cover 40,000 square miles. It is a big loss to ham radio to have
a client that has omitted this fundamental element of APRS that makes its
users blind to the difference in coverage between these two stations.
And also since the client doesn't transmit this fundamental parameter, it
makes all of the rest of APRS also blind to the range of all these
stations. Without being able to discriminate between the station coverage
of an HT and a guy on a 3000' mountain, the RF domain of APRS (ham radio)
is being leveled to a flat playing field of not much more than internet
DOTS on a map, completely ignoring the importance of the local RF
propogation domain.
The idea of APRS was to have a common tool set so that everone was seeing
the same basic information presented in a consistent manner. Not having
subsets of people with widely different capabilitys and significantly
different views.
It would be nice if Uiview could be distributed as bundled package with all
the needed add-ons, so that all users were playing from the same deck.
Unless all APRS users are seeing the same fundamental info with the same
potential tools, we cannot work as a team and cannot do all the things that
we could be doing.
>I find it hard to conceive interest in a web page of some
>df'ing in another part of the country which would probably
>be woefully out of date, even if I could participate, :-)
Agree. But it is not intended for that purpose. It is intended for
-local- use anywhere at any time by anyone in their -own- area as a single
tool that everyone in his area can use in real time. They can get the data
into the system and plotted so that they can solve the local problem in
real time and so that everyone with data has a place to enter it.
This allows every local ham to instantly participate, enter data and view
the results, EITHER with his APRS station, his Mobile or his WEB Browser.
This lets everyone in the area participate, not just the APRS folks. This
would really wake up some clubs to the potential for APRS on *RF*...
>Sorry Bob, the more you complain about UI-View,
>the more I like it... :-)
I'm sorry you see it that way. The limitations of some clients and WEB
displays that cannot display this fundamental information skews APRS into
just a vehicle tracking system and that is preventing us from doing a lot
of what we could accomplish with a real-time-tactical information exchange
signaling channel.
The RF domain is not just DOTS on a MAP! It is areas, ranges, and
propogation and capabilities (all driven by HEIGHT!) I wish this were not
viewed as an emotional issue, but just a practical look at what needs to be
done for APRS to live up to its potential.
Bob WB4APR
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