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ZL3AI > APRDIG 06.05.07 05:03l 226 Lines 9603 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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Subj: [APRSSIG] Vol 34 #27, 2/6
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From: ZL3AI@ZL2BAU.#79.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 11:08:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Curt, WE7U" <archer_at_eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: [aprssig] Signal Locator WEB page
On Thu, 26 Apr 2007, R. Simmons wrote:
>Furthermore, I think hams generally don't co-operate on hunts, they compete
>against each other, ( = social hunts for fun ) so the skills ( and
>technology ) required for a co-ordinated "team hunt" never really get
>developed.
Don't be so quick there! There's at least one case where coordinated
hunting in teams is done regularly: Search and Rescue teams hunting for
Project Lifesaver bracelets on lost people.
Typically these people have Altzheimers, Dimensia, or some other illness
that puts them at risk for wandering. It also makes them about as
susceptible to injury/death as a toddler, so it's important to find them
very quickly. Find times in the 20-minute range or less are what we strive
for.
We have a bunch of people in our county outfitted with these. Hunts happen
regularly. I'd dearly love to get them set up with RDF units for a
coordinated hunt, but right now they use yagi's.
--
Curt, WE7U. APRS Client Comparisons: http://www.eskimo.com/~archer
"Lotto: A tax on people who are bad at math." -- unknown
"Windows: Microsoft's tax on computer illiterates." -- WE7U
"The world DOES revolve around me: I picked the coordinate system!"
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:15:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: "William McKeehan" <mckeehan_at_mckeehan.homeip.net>
Subject: Re: [aprssig] Re: Functional path to hit both WIDE and WIDEn-n digis?
I understand 100% what you are talking about. We have a digi in the
Knoxville, TN Area (WA4KJH-7) that dominated because of it's location. It
is an old style digi that only responds to RELAY,WIDE and TN.
The guy that setup that digi (not WA4KJH-7, but someone else; it was just
under WA4KJH's control) has been out of APRS for a while and was not real
happy about the change to 144.39 that happened way back when; as a result,
we could not motivate him to change the digi to the new WIDEn-N settings.
Originally, I convinced all of the local fill-in digi operators to set
themselves up to respond to both RELAY and WIDE1-1. This helped fill the
gap and gave mobile stations at least one hop which was often enough to get
them into an I-Gate.
Even with this setup, when I went mobile, I changed my settings to
RELAY,WIDE in hopes that the big digi would hear and respond to my packets.
After running that way for a while, a group of APRS folks came together,
raised funds (by passing the hat) and acquired equipment (by donation and
purchase) to put up a new WIDEn-N digi. About the time that we were ready
to put the digi on the air, another fellow was able to move his digi
(WA4RYW-7) from a low level location to a very good location (on the same
tower as WA4KJH-7) providing the area with a much needed high-level WIDEn-N
digi.
The benefit to this setup is that now, any mobile traveling in the
Knoxville area will generally get digi'd by a high level digi if they are
running the new WIDEn-N style path or the older RELAY,WIDE path.
So I guess I said all of that to say don't give up; maybe you'll be able to
replace old digi's or get new ones up one day.
--
William McKeehan
KI4HDU
On Thu, April 26, 2007 1:38 pm, Alex Carver wrote:
>Yes, I understand all this but explain to me how to
>convince a sysop to add something to a digipeater when
>they don't want to change the thing in the first
>place. I asked the question about the path because,
>as of right now, APRS is completely useless if I don't
>even get digipeated when I'm out and about. I can
>hear plenty of traffic but my own posits never go
>anywhere, APRS-IS or otherwise. The digis aren't
>going to change overnight and emails to the owners
>have gone unanswered. So all I can do is stop using
>APRS completely or adjust my path to make it
>functional even if it's not in the way you want.
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:17:55 -0400
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga_at_usna.edu>
Subject: RE: [aprssig] Re: Functional path to hit both WIDE and WIDEn-n digis?
>>.... An option would be to put your own
>>"new paradigm" digi(s)... If the DIGI operators
>>either just don't care... or are too lazy to
>>change their settings, there isn't much you can
>>do except hope... for someone to replace
>>them.
>
>Well, we don't really have snow... in Atlanta...
>
>The question has been asked... and none of
>them have really changed. There are a lot of digis
>using RELAY and WIDE and not many using anything else.
I think all of Alabama is New-N and happily report that it really made a
difference there. It is sad to hear that the Atlanta Area may not have
updated its settings. Basically then, Atlanta does not have a functional
system and it should be abandoned. Try to get all users to set their HOME
stations to WIDE1-1 instead of RELAY.
Then the only possible compromise path would be VIA WIDE1-1,WIDE.
This way, you can be heard at least one hop anyhwere else that you travel,
and if you get enough home stastions to set up with ALIASES of WIDE1-1,
then you can cause the change to happen even without the participation of
recalcitrant digi sysops. Eventually someone else with access to good sites
can put up a few good New-N digis and the old systems will just die.
>I certainly can't afford to add my own digis
>everywhere and neither can the club station here hence
>the reason for asking about a one-fits-all path.
Again, only solution is to go around the recalcitrant digi owners, and get
all home stations to set up to support WIDE1-1 as the first hop. Also, ANY
TNC can be set up as a 1-hop WIDE1-1 digs, so just work around the sysops
and set up as many as you can.
Eventually when you do get new-N digipeaters in place, you may have to go
back and turn off a lot of these temporarily WIDE1-1 fill-in digis.
Bob, WB4APR
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Message: 10
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 12:07:28 -0700
From: "Keith VE7GDH" <ve7gdh_at_rac.ca>
Subject: Re: [aprssig] Re: Functional path to hit both WIDE and WIDEn-n digis?
Alex KF4LVZ wrote...
>The question has been asked of them before and none of
>them have really changed. There are a lot of digis
>using RELAY and WIDE and not many using anything else.
>I certainly can't afford to add my own digis
>everywhere and neither can the club station here hence
>the reason for asking about a one-fits-all path.
>There is quite a bit of traffic already (as observed
>by the club digi) but when I'm out mobile, I very
>rarely get digipeated using W1,W2.
It's unfortunate that the digis around there haven't updated their
settings. All you can do is try and raise the subject with the digi
operators and try and convince them of the benefits of updating their
settings. It's a "win-win" situation if they do. If you do make contact
with any of the digi operators, perhaps you can point them at
www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/aprs/fix14439.html or www.nwaprs.info/widen-n.htm
to give them a hand with doing the updates. Without going overboard, do
your best any time you are in contact with the dig operators to convince
them that the changes are needed. APRS becomes much more usable if the
paths can be standardized, and eliminating RELAY and WIDE really does
improve the chance of success considerably.
In the meantime, your choices are either to make use of RELAY and WIDE or
put up with having poor results. If you can become really familiar with
your radio you can make it relatively painless toggling the path back and
forth while waiting for the digis to update their settings.
73 es cul - Keith VE7GDH
--
"I may be lost, but I know exactly where I am!"
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:27:43 -0500
From: "Robbie, wa9inf" <mwrobertson_at_comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [aprssig] Signal Locator WEB page
A few years ago, there was a UI-View add-on, DF Plot. Any number of
mobiles, with ordinary Fox Hunting equipment, radio, directional antenna,
and a knowledge of "where" the hunter is, would report the bearing from
that spot to a central UI-View operator running the DF Plot.
As these reports come in, the operator would report the location of the
crosshair plot of these reports back to the hunters. If these mobiles are
using APRS tracking gear, then the UI-View operator only needs to click on
the reporting tracker, enter the bearing reported by the tracker into DF
Plot. For those running mobile mapping, an object will be placed where the
bearings all intersect..
For those not running mobile mapping, someone can can direct the hunters by
voice when needed on another frequency..
Robbie
R. Simmons wrote:
>From an outsider : IMHO I agree the DF abilities of APRS have not been
>cultivated and are largely dormant. I have long salivated over the prospect
>of an effective web-based display with multi-hunter APRS inputs. Last year I
>succeeded in making a simple PIC-based device that generates APRS-compliant
>DF messages, and tested it successfully. It was detected and plotted on
>FINDU.com, but with no DF bearing line. I could pursue it further and easily
>offer it as a finished product, but without a means of display, it would be
>pretty pointless.
>
>Furthermore, I think hams generally don't co-operate on hunts, they compete
>against each other, ( = social hunts for fun ) so the skills ( and
>technology ) required for a co-ordinated "team hunt" never really get
>developed.
>
>Bob S.
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