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ZL3AI > APRDIG 24.04.07 04:22l 249 Lines 10066 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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From: ZL3AI@ZL2BAU.#79.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. SCS PTC II e(x) (AA3JY_at_Winlink.org)
2. APRS event philosophy? (Robert Bruninga)
3. Re: APRS event philosophy? (Jason Winningham)
4. APRS Alternate Frequency... (Jeffrey P. Nast)
5. RE: APRS Alternate Frequency... (Robert Bruninga)
6. RE: ANDE and RAFT in view at the same time (Robert Bruninga)
7. RE: Why APRS mobile? (Steve Bragg KA9MVA)
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Message: 1
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 18:49:20 -0000
From: AA3JY_at_Winlink.org
Subject: [aprssig] SCS PTC II e(x)
Those with SCS Tncs'in conjuction with UI-View..what are your INI.COMMAND
paramaters for HF APRS?
Thanks,
Clay AA3JY
(via WL2K)
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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 14:57:42 -0400
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga_at_usna.edu>
Subject: [aprssig] APRS event philosophy?
>But, in most events, I'm not sure everyone needs to know
>where everyone else is.... We need key people to know
>where everyone is, however.
My appologies to the sender, but I will take that sentence out of context
and launch onto my stump for a few paragraphs...
I have seen that kind of statement almost every time I have observed
"traditional Ham comms organizers" accommodate APRS into their operations.
They are clearly still thinking inside the traditional HQ-Knows-all box.
They think of APRS as a vehicle tracking system and think that one big map
display is all it is. Only HQ needs to know what is going on. Then they
point to APRS later and say "it didn't help much. The voice nets were
still overloaded with logistics issues and questions as to where everything
was. The big screen was just fluff and cute, but not very useful..." Well
DUH!
When I suggest that there should be a laptop at every radio position so
that all communicators have access to the situational awareness that APRS
brings, they say, "no, we don't need that, they can look at the big
screen." Well,,,Duh... (footnote, in original APRS, you could connect a
half dozen or more laptops to the single TNC via 2-conductor zip cord and
pushpins at every desk in just minutes.)
The problem with ONE big screen is that it has to be zoomed out to see the
big picture, making it usually impossible to see the detail that any
particular operator needs to answer his immediate communication issue.
Each communicator in an EOC or at a HQ, needs his own zoomable, layered
APRS resource at his operating position so he can zoom, select, add
objects, message, query, click, check, review, replay, update, move, log,
annotate, announce, etc...
APRS was all about objects and the ability of ANY operator to update the
virtual situational map in real time with all objects over which he had
knowledge so that everyone could always see the latest everywhere. APRS
was designed to support dozens and dozens of manually placed objects as
well as those few RF equiped GPS objects so the the tactical picture was
complete, and not just a side show.
Problem is, Uiview in particular has a very poor implementation of objects
and chokes the net if more than a few objects are updated from any one
console. Hence, people don't use APRS objects, no one sees them, and we
still operate inside the box of a big screen side-show with little true
benefit to the "comunicators" that are doing the "real" work.
And because of the "only HQ" needs to see where everything is, we have not
offloaded "info" from the voice nets where still everyone has to ask HQ for
where something is.
At least those with D7's or D700's or HAMhuds can see that XXX is YYY miles
from them and either "approaching" or going away... Or can see bulletins
and announcments on their radios. Or with their attached GPS display, can
see where everything is. And using the techinques I have explained
elsewhere, they too can MARK places on the map and inject OBJECTS onto
everyone else's maps too.
We need to think outside the "only HQ knows all" and "APRS is a vehicle
tracking system" if we are going to truly contribute to events. Everyone
with a radio has the potential to be an APRS asset and that includes
receiving and interpreting the information himself that he needs to perform
his function best.
>That's the value of the "dumb" tracker. It's cheap, so
>it's widely deployed. Once it's permanently installed,
>it's nearly foolproof. And, people know it works because
>they can see their station on Findu.
But most events, communications needs are two-way and FINDU is usually for
the public at home to watch, not for the guy on a corner with a cop, having
to ASK HQ where the lead vehicle is when he should be able to see that
himself on his own APRS radio or display or GPS.
>So they are ready for emergency communication. Granted,
>not with the capabilities of a graphical display and
>messaging capability, but some people can't afford or
>don't have the technical skill to do a quality mobile
>APRS setup.
>
>I've read far too many posts about balloons, special vehicles,
>searchers, etc, equipped with portable trackers that didn't work.
Yes, because they lacked a means for 2-way communications so someone could
tell them to fix it. Or this chatter had to be conduced on the very voice
network that APRS was supposed to be helping, not burdening. In ANY event,
especially where trackers are used, the COMMS plan has to provide for a
dedicated UHF Voice frequency for all these "APRS" issues to be worked out.
These tracker-only stations need to have 3 radios.
1) One radio for the voice net they are supposed to be supporting for the
function they are supposed to be doing at the event
2) Another radio (or band) for their APRS tracker
3) Another radio (preferably UHF) for the APRS voice channel for talking
back to all the APRS operators and trackers that do not have APRS message
capability.
It could be argued that a good two-way APRS station might be cheaper and
more robust than the sum of all those other requirements. Of course,
having said that tongue-in-cheek, even an event full of APRS 2-way
communicators better have a UHF APRS coordination channel anyway because of
all the OJT that has to be prformed on the air due to lack of commonality
and prior experience with their toys.
>Okay, I'll yield the soapbox to someone else. :)
Thanks. I'm done too.
Soapbox off.
Bob, Wb4APR
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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 14:14:32 -0500
From: Jason Winningham <jdw_at_eng.uah.edu>
Subject: Re: [aprssig] APRS event philosophy?
On Apr 13, 2007, at 1:57 PM, Robert Bruninga wrote:
>footnote, in original APRS, you could connect a half dozen or
>more laptops to the single TNC via 2-conductor zip cord and
>pushpins at every desk in just minutes.
In today's APRS (if you're using xastir, anyway) you can do that, only
faster and without the wires.
We ran an ad-hoc 802.11 in my truck for the balloon chase last weekend. My
laptop had the TNCs (APRS on two frequencies) and shared that data via APRS
server connection to another laptop in the vehicle. Would work just the
same at the command post, and not all the recipients have to be xastir of
course; anything that can talk to an APRS-IS server can get the data.
-Jason
kg4wsv
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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 14:21:54 -0500
From: "Jeffrey P. Nast" <jpnast_at_frontiernet.net>
Subject: [aprssig] APRS Alternate Frequency...
Last year during a couple of races, we ran into an APRS propagation
problems during the races. Normally these are good problems, to see far off
stations, but it didn't help us by clogging the air waves during the race.
So this year during the races we will be moving off of the standard 144.390
to another frequency. Is there a an "official" alternate APRS frequency? If
not, I was thinking somewhere between 145.500 and 145.800.
And yes, we will still be gating packets to the internet during the races.
Thank you!!!
-Jeff Nast
KC0MKS
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Message: 5
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 15:42:11 -0400
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga_at_usna.edu>
Subject: RE: [aprssig] APRS Alternate Frequency...
>race. So this year during the races we will be moving off of the
>standard 144.390 to another frequency. Is there a an "official"
>alternate APRS frequency? If not, I was thinking somewhere between
>145.500 and 145.800.
Easiest fix is to put up a few 144.99/144.39 temporary WIDE1-1 digis to
cover the venue. Then all low power trackers and D7's can operate 144.39
+600 and not have to compete with any outside QRM. They use the normal
path of VIA WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 or whatrever is needed.
Also, these fill-in WIDE1-1 digis are not listening on 144.39 so they will
take PRIORITY over all other traffic when they digipeat these event data
over onto 144.39 where everyone is listening. The second and subsequent
hops all occur on 144.39.
The advantages are:
1) Un-congested input to the event digis
2) RF priority for all event stations
3) OUTPUT is on 144.39 for Igates and surrounding viewers
Check to see that 144.99 is available in your area.
WB4APR, Bob
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 16:51:43 -0400
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga_at_usna.edu>
Subject: RE: [aprssig] ANDE and RAFT in view at the same time
>ANDE and RAFT are coming over at the same time tonight. Lots of
>time to play packet and maybe packet-to-voice on 145.825.
>
>http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/ande-raft-ops.html
And if you use INSTANTRACK and select the #4 Satellite Visibility schedule,
you will see that RAFT comes over the same time every day every pass for
the next weeks or so. It's a vertical pattern I have never seen before.
Of course every several days, an earlier pass begins to appear and one of
the later ones disappears. But the times remain the same.
I guess it is so low, that its 15.98 revs per day is an integer multiple of
a sideral day, though I cant get the math to work out exactly right. I get
15.956, but that doesn't line up as well.
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