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ZL3AI > APRDIG 30.11.06 08:04l 250 Lines 9181 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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Subj: [APRSSIG] Vol 29 #26, 1/2
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From: ZL3AI@ZL2BAU.#79.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. [AD] [OT] LCD Controller Holiday Special (Brian B. Riley)
2. Proportional Pathing and Aprstracker v0.11? (Robert Bruninga)
3. Re: Proportional Pathing and Aprstracker v0.11? (Wes Johnston, AI4PX)
4. Re: GPS recommendation (Mark Williams)
5. Re: GPS recommendation (K7RJR John)
6. Re: Proportional Pathing and Aprstracker v0.11? (Arno Verhoeven (PE1ICQ))
7. Re: GPS recommendation (Jan T. Pharo)
8. RE: Proportional Pathing and Aprstracker v0.11? (Robert Bruninga)
9. Proportional Pathing NOW in KPC3+ trackers (Robert Bruninga)
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 19:49:56 -0500
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga_at_usna.edu>
Subject: [aprssig] Proportional Pathing and Aprstracker v0.11?
Arno,
>Aprstracker is an open source firmware for PIC based trackers
>like the TinyTrak, KF161-Tracker, or KF163-Tracker.
>...including... SmartBeaconing...
Smart beaconing was a great improvement over fixed rates. APRS was never
intended for fixed rates anyway, but was supposed to use algorithms such as
"decaying" to limit duplicates and old data and provide priority to new and
fresh data. I am glad you have this in your code.
But there are many user settings for smart-beaconing that need to be
changed depending on the situation and this can sometimes make things worse
instead of better if these settings are set improperly.
Would you consider adding PROPORTIONAL PATHING to your system? It is also
much simpler to implement and could be offered as a user option and easily
modified in the field with an A/B switch...
PROPORTIONAL PATHING simply recognizes that frequent updates are only
needed close to the sender and less frequently farther and farther away.
You can give the user only a single external 2/3 HOP switch for setting his
PATH (no PC required)...
HOP SWITCH SET TO 2:
Every 1 minute a DIRECT packet
Every 2nd minute a WIDE1-1 packet
Every 4th minute a WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 packet
HOP SWITCH SET TO 3: (in remote areas)
Same as above except adds via WIDE1-1,WIDE2-2 every 8th minute.
RATE SWITCH SET TO 3: In the above examples the RATE switch is set to "/2"
because at each additional hop, the RATE is divided by 2. But if the RATE
SWITCH is set to "/3" then the user's packets are further reduced at a
distance by a factor of 3 as in this example:
Every 1 minute a DIRECT packet
Every 3rd minute a WIDE1-1 packet
Every 9th minute a WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 packet
Every 27th minute a WIDE1-1,WIDE2-2 packet
This will work in almost any typical application and will greatly reduce
QRM from high rate trackers that are far away while giving good updates
close in... It is nice to see everyone at a 1 minute rate when you are
close to them, but you do not need such frequent updates when they are much
farther away...
Please see the Proportional Pathing Recommendation in the APRS 1.2
Addendum.
http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/aprs/ProportionalPathing.txt
De WB4APR, Bob
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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 20:45:09 -0500
From: "Wes Johnston, AI4PX" <wes_at_kd4rdb.com>
Subject: Re: [aprssig] Proportional Pathing and Aprstracker v0.11?
I once did this with my car and a kpc3.... When I was the only one on aprs
in my town I had a beacon rate of 20 seconds out 0 hops, and once a minute
(or three can't remember), went out 2 hops.
It would be nice if this were built in to a tracker.
Wes
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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 21:14:55 -0700
From: "Mark Williams" <kf6yu_at_cox.net>
Subject: Re: [aprssig] GPS recommendation
I've got a Garmin GPSmap 60CSx (high end) and an eTrax Legend (low end) and
both have NEMA in/out through serial and will display aprs stations as
waypoints. I did have trouble with TX/RX conflicts with the Legend in high
traffic areas when I had it set up that way so now have the GPS talk only.
There is no flow control with only three wires.
Mark, KF6YU
----- Original Message -----
From: "K7RJR John" <k7rjr_at_cox.net>
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 11:25 AM
Subject: [aprssig] GPS recommendation
>I just found out that I will be receiving a new GPS for Christmas. I
>presently have 2 hockey puck type GPSs and a 9 year old Eagle hand held
>but would like to use one of the new mapping GPSs that provide route
>information, preferably one with voice guidance. Such as the Magellan
>Roadmate 2000, Tom Tom, Garmin 300+, etc. I'll be using a D-700 and
>want to use the GPS to show the received stations' icons on the map
>screen.
>
>I've been searching the web and can't find anything to indicate this
>will be possible with the newest devices. Any help will be appreciated.
>Thanks.
>
>John, K7RJR
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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 21:50:37 -0700
From: K7RJR John <k7rjr_at_cox.net>
Subject: Re: [aprssig] GPS recommendation
Thanks to all who replied. I ended up getting an AvMap G4T and it's
'plug & play' with my D7 with the cable that came with it. Only wish
the voices didn't have English accents - hi!
John, K7RJR
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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 09:07:10 +0100
From: "Arno Verhoeven (PE1ICQ)" <pe1icq_at_sharon.esrac.ele.tue.nl>
Subject: [aprssig] Re: Proportional Pathing and Aprstracker v0.11?
Robert Bruninga wrote the following on 2006-11-29 1:49:
>Arno,
>
Hi Bob,
>>Aprstracker is an open source firmware for PIC based trackers
>>like the TinyTrak, KF161-Tracker, or KF163-Tracker.
>>...including... SmartBeaconing...
>>
>
>Smart beaconing was a great improvement over fixed rates. APRS
>was never intended for fixed rates anyway, but was supposed to
>use algorithms such as "decaying" to limit duplicates and old
>data and provide priority to new and fresh data. I am glad you
>have this in your code.
>
>But there are many user settings for smart-beaconing that need
>to be changed depending on the situation and this can sometimes
>make things worse instead of better if these settings are set
>improperly.
I agree. To somehow decrease the chance of someone making a mistake with
the setting I reduced the number of SmartBeaconing variables that can be
tweaked in the user settings. Only Slow beacon rate (in minutes), Slow
beacon threshold, Fast Beacon rate (in seconds), and Fast beacon
threshold can be set by the user. Previous releases also had a setting
that impacted sensitivity to course changes and the minimum allowed time
between beacons.
>Would you consider adding PROPORTIONAL PATHING to your system?
It already does support proportional pathing. It does that since v0.10.
However it can do that in combination with SmartBeaconing.
The PropPath feature does not exclud the SB feature.
If both are enabled then the SmartBeaconing algorithm determines when to
send a beacon, but when Proportional Pathing determines which digi-path
to use for this particular beacon.
If SmartBeaconing is disabled and Proportional Pathing is enabled then
the Aprstracker firmware does exactly what you described.
Do you think it is principally wrong to enable SmartBeaconing and
Proportional Pathing at the same time?
73, Arno PE1ICQ
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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 10:28:54 +0100
From: "Jan T. Pharo" <la2bba_at_jpharo.net>
Subject: Re: [aprssig] GPS recommendation
K7RJR John <k7rjr_at_cox.net>, Tue, 28 Nov 2006 21:50:37 -0700:
>Only wish the voices didn't have English accents - hi!
No, the voices should, of course, be in old norse :-)
--
73 de Jan, LA2BBA
Hvaler, Norway
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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 09:23:02 -0500
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga_at_usna.edu>
Subject: [aprssig] RE: Proportional Pathing and Aprstracker v0.11?
>Do you think it is principally wrong to enable SmartBeaconing and
>Proportional Pathing at the same time?
No, I think that is an excellent combination of features!
But, having said that... My personal preference is for proportional pathing
so that I can be confident that at least once a minute I will hear any
other local mobile within a few miles. My concern (maybe unfounded) is the
un-deterministic timing of smart-beaconing settings so that I may pass
within yards of a smart beaconing system and never know it. Or may drive
though a small town where someone is just loitering along at 10 MPH and
never see his smart beacon until 10 minutes later after I am long gone.
Smart beaconing had the same goal of proportional pathing, to minimize QRM
on the network, and does an excellent job of that. But it does so, by
sacrificing local updates as well. And treating local and distant areas
with the same reduced-reporting load. I personally like Proportional
Pathing because it keeps the local rate consistent and high enough for good
tracking, while at the same time reducing QRM further out.
The best advantage of combining them is not in the SB "rates" but in the SB
"corner pegging". So maybe the best combination would simply add corner
pegging to proportional pathing?
Bob, WB4APR
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